Meet the Bread Monk: Father Dominic and His Doughy Delights

Arnold
00:00:01

You've probably heard of Jerry Garcia and the group that follows him are called Deadheads. Well, what about Father Dominic Garramone? And the followers are called breadheads here on St. Louis in Tune. Welcome to St. Louis in Tune.

And thank you for joining us for fresh perspectives on issues and events with experts, community leaders, and everyday people who make a difference in shaping our society and world. I'm Arnold Stricker along with co host Mark Langston, who is cooling off in front of the air conditioner in a warm studio today.

Mark
00:00:47

Wow, it is hot in here. I know. They haven't turned off the boilers yet in our building here, and the boiler pipes go right through the corner of.

Arnold
00:00:56

Our studio in a chase. And we are boiling. Yes, we are.

Mark
00:01:01

I came in Today, it was 89, 90 degrees in the studio.

Arnold
00:01:04

It's like a little sauna.

Mark
00:01:06

Okay.

Arnold
00:01:07

Our return to civility, folks, when dining out, pick up after yourself. In other words, if you drop a napkin or a piece of chicken on the floor, pick it up. If you spill water on your seat, wipe it up.

Although I have been to some establishments where if you kind of mess it up on the table, they come and clean it up for you.

Mark
00:01:28

Yeah, good point. Because callbacks. Isn't that what they call it? Callbacks? Do they ever come?

I know sometimes I'll, I'll have everything like, like we're halfway through the meal or something. I'll have some things set over to the side from the appetizers and they just leave them. Could you help here? Just clear the table off a little bit.

Arnold
00:01:47

I thought you might be wanting to eat more of that.

Mark
00:01:49

Yeah, maybe the tip would be bigger. I don't know.

Arnold
00:01:54

I like.

Arnold
00:01:54

I love the crumb scrapers. Have you seen those?

Mark
00:01:57

No.

Arnold
00:01:57

They're like these little metal things that they.

Mark
00:01:59

If you're on a. Oh, that's a hoity toity restaurant.

Arnold
00:02:02

Restaurant.

Arnold
00:02:03

They have a cloth tablecloth.

Mark
00:02:04

They have the girl.

Arnold
00:02:05

They, they take crumb scraper. So when dining out, pick up after yourself. It's. It just makes it a lot more enjoyable.

Mark
00:02:15

I cannot personally cannot sit there if I have us. If I've dropped a. If I've dropped my napkin or something, I cannot just let it sit there. No, I have to pick it up.

Arnold
00:02:26

I need a napkin.

Mark
00:02:28

I might have two or three on the table, but if I drop so many times I, I come to sit at a table.

Mark
00:02:34

What happened? World War three at this. On the floor of this table.

Arnold
00:02:38

Somebody was eating on the floor rather than the table.

Father Dom
00:02:40

And I.

Mark
00:02:41

Yes, I, I'm telling you all my, my, my secrets. So I will come, I'll come to. And I'll get, I'll get some water and a napkin and a dry napkin and I'll wipe things down. I'll wipe that.

Maybe I shouldn't be going to those restaurants where I have the.

Arnold
00:02:56

As long as the floor sticky when you walk.

Mark
00:02:59

Oh, that's the. Yeah, that scares me a lot. Arnold.

Arnold
00:03:04

Why is it a class C establishment.

Arnold
00:03:06

When you walk in or.

Mark
00:03:07

No, I probably should look more often at that.

Arnold
00:03:11

Yeah, that's something folks to look at. What's that sticker in the window there?

Mark
00:03:14

And why is my foot sticking to the floor?

Father Dom
00:03:19

Blip.

Arnold
00:03:20

Now, speaking of food, and this is on the good side because this guy, I remember him from way back watching the show on PBS and Father Dom's show and the bread monk, and we had the opportunity to have a conversation with him the other day. He wasn't able to work into our regular scheduled time, but we recorded and we're going to play that back. It's a wonderful time with him.

He's a great guy. And we're going to have him back prior to holiday time because he said, hey, let's do some holiday baking things. We'll get together and do that.

Mark
00:03:53

So he had a good time with us and we had a good time with him.

Arnold
00:03:56

He did. Yeah.

Father Dom
00:03:57

Yeah.

Mark
00:03:57

And I, I was excited when we, we talked to Dr. Our father Dom. Yeah, could be a doctor.

Mark
00:04:03

Could be.

Arnold
00:04:03

That's Dr. Of Bread.

Mark
00:04:06

He's good for the soul.

Arnold
00:04:07

So I guess I would ask you.

Arnold
00:04:08

Folks, are you a breadhead or not? So listen into this and maybe you will become one.

Arnold
00:04:15

Father Dominic Garramone of The Order of St. Benedict is a monk at St. Bede Abbey in Peru, Illinois. He was the host of the PBS cooking show Breaking Bread with father Dominic from 1999 to 2001.

And he's written several cookbooks, including Baking your way through the Holidays and Breakfast Breads and Sweet Treats.

His first children's book, Brother Jerome and the Angels in the Bakery, was the recipient of the 2011 Christopher Award for Children's Books and and the 2011 Catholic Press Association First Place Award for Children's Books. Father Don welcome to St. Louis in Tune.

Father Dom
00:04:53

It's great to be with you.

Arnold
00:04:54

You started baking early at home with your mother's assistance. What was so enthralling or satisfying about baking?

Father Dom
00:05:05

I remember my first experience of baking, and it was baking solo. We were always in the kitchen, and my mom used the kitchen like a classroom. If you were Learning to count.

She'd say, okay, I need four eggs, who's going to count for me? Or if you're learning fractions, she'd say, we're using three quarters of a cup of sugar, but we're going to double the recipe. How much is that?

Or you were learning to tell time. She'd say, okay, the cookies will be done in 12 minutes. What time will it be then?

So we were always in the kitchen with her and it was just, it was fun. We really enjoyed it. But for me, I baked bread for class in fifth grade. We were supposed to do something from a French speaking country.

And because my mom baked bread all the time, she said, oh, we'll make French bread, that's really easy. And I what most people would say, let's make French toast, that's easy. But she said, let's make French bread.

And so I made baguettes, traditional baguettes like they make in France. And I brought them to school with pat of unsalted butter like they have in France, and some homemade apricot preserves.

Arnold
00:06:09

And.

Father Dom
00:06:09

And I put it out in front of the class. There was nothing left but crumbs. There were only 11 people in the class and we ate two loaves of bread.

So there was this payoff, like other kids that brought stuff that people that didn't get finished off or people didn't particularly like, but they loved the bread. And I thought, wow, this is fun. And that did. And watching the dough rise and there were kind of aspects of it that were really enjoyable.

So I really started getting into baking very early on.

And then all through grade school and high school, when we did Fiddler on the Roof as the spring musical, I brought what, two foot challah, traditional Jewish bread to the cast party. Everybody else was bringing chips and soda. In college, I would bake bread in the dorm kitchenette.

And then guys would come by and I'd say, hey, bring some lunch meat, bring some cheese. And we'd have a little sandwich party in my room. So I just get it all through high school and college.

And then when I joined the monastery, the monks found out that I could bake. And they started leaving recipes in my mailbox. They were like, hey, mom used to make this. I really meant that.

Arnold
00:07:12

Would you make this?

Father Dom
00:07:13

It wasn't long before I. Yeah, exactly. I started expanding my repertoire because people wanted stuff from their childhood.

Mark
00:07:20

There is nothing like homemade bread. I have to tell you.

Arnold
00:07:24

You're right.

Father Dom
00:07:24

And so many of those, our memories of homemade bread are so tied to a particular time in our life where we felt safe and loved or we didn't have responsibilities or a person that's no longer with us or they're tied to our heritage or a particular holiday. And yeah, bread is almost always nostalgic way more than say burgers on the grill are. There's a certain nostalgia that's always associated.

Mark
00:07:47

With baking and the whole process of doing it. Being together in the kitchen and help me with the flour and getting it ready and everything and watching it.

Father Dom
00:07:55

Oh yeah, I don't remember. I don't remember my mother ever saying, get out of the kitchen, I'm working. She was like, get in here and beat these eggs.

Arnold
00:08:02

Help me out.

Father Dom
00:08:03

That sense of togetherness, yes, 100%. And, and as I have said before, the word company or companion comes from the Latin cum panum with bread.

So our company, our companions are those we break bread with. That's what the word means. You share your bread on the journey, your companions in life. And there's an inherent.

Some of us could eat a whole loaf of bread by ourselves, but most of us, yeah, you bake it, you want to share, you want to break the bread or you want to slice it up and make sandwiches or put it out there with the soup and so forth.

Mark
00:08:38

There's nothing like fresh bread right after it comes out of the oven.

Father Dom
00:08:44

I will say, though, I think a 10 minute wait is better because it's still warm.

But it's because bread continues to bake outside of the oven and so the interior is still warming up and finishing off and it's still giving off moisture and so forth. So about a 10 minute wait before you slice, you'll actually like it even better. That's just been my experience. We had a monk community.

Father John, he could tell from the smell on the third floor of the monastery when 10 minutes out of the oven had a lap.

Arnold
00:09:16

Oh my gosh.

Father Dom
00:09:17

Like he had it to that much of a sight. He would show up at exactly, exactly the right moment every time I bake.

Arnold
00:09:26

You sure he didn't have a video camera in the kitchen there watching?

Father Dom
00:09:30

He knew the smell. He knew the smell that, okay, bread's ready to be sliced and I can show up almost invariably at the right time. Quite remarkable.

Arnold
00:09:40

Our culture has changed quite a bit from when you and Mark and I were growing up where maybe our moms made bread. And now it's mostly store bought.

I know we're in a different society and culture where we want things instantly, but this whole process of baking bread, some people think it's A little complicated. Sort that out for us a little bit. How complicated or how easy is it? And what do you need to make bread?

Father Dom
00:10:06

There's two things that scare people about bread making. One is yeast, because it's a living organism. And people say, oh, I think I killed the yeast, or I don't know if my yeast is expired.

You know, there's all sorts of aspects of it that can be difficult like that. The main thing I tell people, check the expiration date on your package of yeast because it may have been in the cabinet longer than you think.

And then also, whatever liquids you use with the yeast should never be warmer than the kind of like baby bath water or baby formula, because that's the absolute perfect temperature. About 100 to 110 degrees is the perfect temperature for getting yeast to multiply, to wake up and multiply.

And so your liquid should never be any hotter than that. I think that's where some people run into trouble with yeast. The second thing is the process of kneading can be difficult for a lot of people.

That's why I'm really glad, actually, I wasn't at first, but I'm really glad that people are getting stand mixers with a dough hook, because if that's the way you're going to get bread into your house, you don't want to knead by hand. That that's going to get fresh homemade bread into your house. God bless you. Go ahead and use that dough hook.

I was fortunate that I learned my kneading technique when I was 11. So I've been kneading a very long time.

But if that's something that's difficult, then I say, people, yeah, absolutely, go ahead and use the stand mixer. I'm really glad, though, too, that you can find so many great videos on YouTube and other places where you can learn how to knead.

There's different techniques for it, and you'll see a lot of them that are available on the Internet or online classes. And I think that's helped a lot of people with being comfortable with baking.

I produced a couple of those kind of videos myself that are on my website, and I have a YouTube channel, and that has helped people a lot to learn how to knead or shape dough or know when it's risen sufficiently, all those sorts of things.

I think the things that we used to learn at our mother's side or grandmother's side, it skipped a couple generations, and now we're learning it off the Internet. But thanks be to God, let's preserve that knowledge.

Arnold
00:12:07

We're talking to you about the Thursday night pizza book, and it's the second edition. So my question is, what's new about this edition? From the first edition, what have you added?

Father Dom
00:12:19

I've added some recipes or pizza variations on pizza that I hadn't before because I started doing big pizza parties. I started doing fundraiser pizza parties that were like gourmet.

So I was making things like velite sauce with chicken and broccoli, or I was doing a sherry cream sauce with ham and shallots and then you put grapes and drizzle it with honey, the things that were out of the ordinary. So I wanted to share a lot of those kinds of recipes.

But then also the popularity of backyard ovens made me realize that there's a whole group of people out there who want to start baking and baking better, and they might need some guidance about the dough, because the dough that you use in your oven at home is probably going to be different than the one that you use in your backyard oven.

Arnold
00:13:07

Explain that.

Mark
00:13:09

Yeah, we could do a whole show.

Father Dom
00:13:10

Yeah, we could do a whole show just on dough because of the variations that are out there. But most people, when they make dough, when they used to make bread at home, they were making it in their oven.

The oven only goes up to 500 degrees at max. And so. And you use a pizza stone, okay. To make really good pizza. For that kind of dough.

You could do an American style dough, which American style dough usually has a little milk in it or sometimes a lot of milk in it and a little more sugar and oil and in addition to the flour, the yeast and salt, and that tastes a little more like bread and browns in the oven at that 500 degrees, perfectly crisps up all those kinds of things. A lot of people who are doing backyard pizza ovens, either wood fired or wood fired chips or pellets or propane. Right. Happens to be propane.

You're going to, that oven might go up to 700, 800, 900 degrees.

Arnold
00:14:01

Wow.

Father Dom
00:14:02

You use a milk based dough that's going to burn or it's going to be dark on the outside and not done in the middle, and you won't get as good of a. You won't get as good of a result. And that's difficult for people. They're like, they get mad and they spend hundreds of dollars on this thing.

They can't get it to work. It's really a matter of the dough. Italian pizza dough, such as they do in those hot ovens, is flour, water, yeast and salt.

That's it and it's usually a higher hydration, it's wetter than the dough that you might make for your home oven. Okay. And so those make a big difference when you're putting in the oven, it won't brown as fast because there's no milk, there's no sugar.

And then also because it's a little wetter, it can stand that high heat. Okay, Now, a lot of Neapolitan dough recipes.

You make them with a fantastically small amount of yeast, sometimes as little as a half a teaspoon of yeast, rather than basically a scant tablespoon in a package normally. So you might only use like a half a teaspoon or a teaspoon of yeast.

And then sometimes it might rise for three days in the refrigerator before you use it.

And that gives a certain quality to the dough that is perfect for that wood fired oven or pellet or propane oven in your backyard at those higher temperatures. And so I wanted to have a whole section just on backyard ovens and what they were like.

And there's tabletop models, there's big models, there's small ones, there's portable ones. I just thought people needed some kind of primer to be able to understand that a little better.

I've had a lot of people contact me and say all along I didn't know the problem was the dough, and now it's going great. So many people, including my own cousin, by the way, who said, I couldn't figure out what was wrong. I said, oh, it's just a dough problem.

So I said in my recipe, we.

Mark
00:15:48

Have a propane pizza oven in our backyard.

Father Dom
00:15:50

Really nice. We love it.

Mark
00:15:52

Everybody makes their own little pizza, so it's a wonderful time for the family to get together.

But we have struggled with the dough and we found that, I hate to say this, you may hang up on this, but we went out and bought, store bought, already made dough, and it.

Father Dom
00:16:08

Just doesn't work right for us. There are lots of people who live near really good pizzerias that that's a good option for you because it must be admitted.

It's a certain amount of work to get ready to make pizza. You gotta be intentional and plan. You have several days around it, really.

And so I understand why people would go ahead and get something made commercially or that's provided by a local pizzeria.

Mark
00:16:31

We tried doing it ourselves and we haven't given up on it. We keep trying, but we always have that store bought standing by. Can we please have a few pieces?

Father Dom
00:16:42

Yeah, you Know what? I used to be really snobbish about this stuff. I used to be really snobbish about bread machines.

Those first came out just before I started my TV show. Those had just started being. Got a big rise in popularity right about that. And I was an abomination unto the Lord. Terrible.

And because I was believing that the important thing was get your hands in the dough now. From, like, a personal, therapeutic sense. Absolutely.

Putting your hands in the dough, kneading the rhythm of it, the patience of it, those are all good for our soul. But then I first I was told by one of my sponsors, hey, 50% of our income comes from bread machine. Don't be bad. Not that I'm on camera.

I'm like, okay, duly noted.

But then after I started doing events and book signings and all that kind of stuff, people were coming up to me and saying, hey, I have arthritis, and I'm so glad that you have a bread machine version of your bread, because I can't make bread. Or I have a child with special needs got special dietary needs. I'm a single mom with two kids. Being able to just turn the machine on and walk away.

No, I can feed my kid healthy bread that I can't buy at the store. I'm like, okay, I need to back off the negativity. If that's. Like I said, if that's how you can get decent bread in your house, God bless you.

Go ahead and go there.

Arnold
00:18:03

And that's great to hear you say that, because a lot of people would just stand firm. And I'm not going to change my stance on this. It's this way or the highway.

And I know something that you've talked about in your book, and I don't want to get into this ahead of time, but you mentioned that the best pizza is the one that you're making right now. And there's no sense in saying, is it Chicago styles better, New York better, St.

Louis better, whatever pizza, it's the one you're making right now is the best pizza.

Father Dom
00:18:35

I hate pizza snobs. Oh, they drive me crazy. They're like people who just. As if somehow this is a hill to die on.

Like, it's not real pizza because you can't fold it in half, says some New York guy. Or that deep dish is the only way to go or whatever. I have had all of those kinds of pizzas, and I love all of them.

I've had some pizzas in a gas station that were pretty darn good, surprisingly. Get a slice on the way, that might be just because Honduras, the best sauce, but there's.

There, there's no reason for people to be snobbish about it, make somebody else feel bad about the way they do it, especially with regard to. It must be this kind of flour or whatever. Yeah, the flour can make a big difference.

Certainly a flour with higher protein I think is always the way to go because the protein gives the dough better structure and you get that kind of nice poofy crust and, and if you want those big kind of classic holes that you see in an artisan crust, yeah, that's better. With a high protein bread, like bread flour, you're better off using that sort of thing.

But I made all purpose flour pizzas for a decade before I ever wrote my first cookbook, and they all turned out great. You know, people I've had, you know, so many people tell me this is the best pizza I've ever had in my life. And I.

They say the same thing when they, you know, they do it at home. They say we've never had better pizza than the stuff we make by ourselves.

So, yeah, it's more a matter of the freshness of it and the freshness of the ingredients. And I think the pleasure of doing it yourself can certainly add to the taste.

A friend of mine just recently had a party at his house, and one of the things that people find difficult in a backyard pizza oven is having to spin the pizza. Do you struggle with that at all? Like, you have to spin it in the back of the, of the oven, you know what I'm saying?

Mark
00:20:23

Yes, we do.

Father Dom
00:20:24

We, we slide it in and then.

Mark
00:20:26

We just, we try to flick our wrists a little bit to get it.

Father Dom
00:20:30

And the reason people don't realize when they buy the oven, they may not be aware of this. There's. The heat source is only on one place, either the front or the side or the back of the side, depending upon the model or the size of it.

And if you leave it without rotating it, then it will burn on one side and the other side will still be raw. So it has to be rotated within the oven itself.

And one of the difficulties with that for a lot of people is, is learning to manipulate the dough with appeal in such a fashion that you don't push it into the action in a regular fashion so that it doesn't, so that it doesn't burn. It cooks evenly. And I actually developed a tool for this.

There's pictures of it in the cookbook where I took a pair of long handled barbecue Forks, the kind with two tines, and I simply bent the ends of them. And you can actually buy these online. I mean, they make them, but it's just as easy to get. You know, go to a thrift shop and buy them for a buck 99.

They don't have to match. And then you bend the ends, and then you use it to grip the sides of the pizza and spin it right there on top of the stone.

And so you have complete control. And you can spin it as slow or as fast as you want and move it around very easily.

And it kind of spins in a circle as opposed to you're trying to push it around with a peel.

Mark
00:21:48

Now, we're always worried about the stone being clean enough so that it's slick enough to turn.

Mark
00:21:54

Yeah.

Father Dom
00:21:54

And you do want to. You certainly want to brush off your pizza stone after each pizza, because that cornmeal starts to burn.

If you put cornmeal or semolina down that starts to burn, it can adversely affect the flavor. Although I have to say, I like a little char. Oh, I wouldn't either one of those over. I think I'm gonna go over the.

I don't wanna be eating a charcoal brick, but I do a little bit of extra brown. Even when I do my pizzas at home. I don't like it when the. When there's no color on the mozzarella.

I want a little dark tip there just for the sake of the. And I can crust better that when it's like that, too. What I'm really looking forward.

I have to say, now that we're talking about what I'm really looking forward to. This is months away. I can't wait until there's garden tomatoes, because.

Arnold
00:22:39

Oh, yes.

Mark
00:22:43

Use the little ones. We use those little bitty tomatoes. Do you use bigger tomatoes?

Father Dom
00:22:47

You know what, those cherry tomatoes, even in the wintertime, those aren't bad. And I have used those to make a bruschetta topping before that is really good. And even in the wintertime.

Okay, those little cherry tomatoes that come up, those aren't bad even in the winter. But there's a pizza I make that's called the four cheese tomato top. The original Italian is quacco formatti compoundoro.

But you lay down a mixture of cheese, four different cheeses, and some herbs, and one beaten egg mixed in with it, tossed in lightly, and you lay that down on your crust, and then just slices of raw tomatoes that have been drained slightly, and then put that in the oven. No sauce, nothing else on top. Just Leave the tomatoes right there. And when that comes out, it is. Oh my gosh. Yeah.

That's one of the most popular pizzas in, in my, in my books is that people tell me they love making it when they get the garden tomatoes in. Especially if you have the heirloom tomatoes and they're different colors.

Arnold
00:23:47

Right.

Father Dom
00:23:48

Colorful pizza as well. That, that's my, that's probably my favorite. Actually.

Arnold
00:23:52

I'm having to wipe my mouth because I'm drooling as you're talking about this.

Mark
00:23:56

I know it's making us very hungry.

I know we've had pizzas around our house, but when we got that pizza oven out on the back porch and our family comes around and we have all the different toppings and everything, we have a blast. It's just a great time.

Father Dom
00:24:11

Once you get the dough rolled out, you can get your six year old involved. And so yeah, everybody can be a part of putting things on their pizza and, and that's a great delight for everybody. It's so entertaining.

Now part of it for me is trying to teach people how to toss things. The dough that every family should videotape that get their phones out when somebody's trying to learn to toss the dough.

Because it always, there's always a I Love Lucy moment.

Mark
00:24:38

We haven't done the larger pizzas yet. We do the smaller ones everybody makes and they share with everyone. We have not really ventured into a larger pizza. Medium sized pizza.

Father Dom
00:24:48

A lot of the pizza oven, a lot of the backyard pizza ovens out there won't do much more than a 12 incher. And so that's a, that's still pretty close to personal pan size. Our personal size and the 12 is about the limit.

There's some larger ones that'll do with 16s. They're a lot more expensive than they're. Once they're on your patio. They are there. There's no moving them around.

I kind of like the fact the one that I have is portable and so I can take it to a buddy's garage. I have a friend who has a. One of those big green egg that can be used for one of those and he uses that to make pizza.

And so we actually have a plan to do that once it warms up a little bit his garage and I'm going to bring mine over and he's going to fire up his. And we're going to, we're going to do pizza. He has a large family, large extended family. So this will be quite the party, I think.

But that's I like that sort of thing. Bringing people together and experimenting is just a great way to make a meal more than just refueling.

Arnold
00:25:43

It absolutely is. It absolutely is.

Arnold
00:25:46

We're going to come back and hear the rest of our conversation, sort of. Stricker with Mark Langston of St. Louis and Tomb.

Arnold
00:25:51

Be right back.

Speaker F
00:25:58

This is Arnold Stricker of St. Louis in tune on behalf of the Dred Scott Heritage Foundation.

In 1857, the Dred Scott decision was a major legal event and catalyst that contributed to the Civil War. The decision declared that Dred Scott could not be free because he was not a citizen.

The 14th Amendment, also called the Dred Scott Amendment, granted citizenship to all born or naturalized here in our country and was intended to overturn the US Supreme Court decision on July 9, 1868.

The Dred Scott Heritage foundation is requesting a commemorative stamp to be issued from the US Postal Service to recognize and remember the heritage of this amendment by issuing a stamp with the likeness of the man Dred Scott. But we need your support and the support of thousands of people who would.

Arnold
00:26:40

Like to see this happen.

Speaker F
00:26:41

To achieve this goal, we ask you to download, sign and share the one page petition with others. To find the petition, please go to dred ScottLives.org and click on the Dred Scott petition drive on the right side of the page.

On behalf of the Dred Scott Heritage foundation, this has been Arnold Stricker of St. Louis in tunes.

Mark
00:27:08

Foreign.

Arnold
00:27:14

This is Arnold Stricker with Mark Langston of Saint Lucentun.

We're talking to Father Dominic Garamoni about his updated book, the Second Edition Thursday Night Pizza and Father Don One of the things I really appreciate about this book, people are just going to think, well, it's just pizza. The contents are pizza basics, crusts and sauces, appetizers, pizzas and desserts. There's also a red sauce, white sauce, no sauce.

And plus, you have notes in here on each pizza that you talk about or each appetizer. You say, I'll be perfectly honest here.

The reason I serve this pizza to the Brethren is so that I can eat the leftover topping with crostini as I work. I love that honesty. I love that honesty.

Father Dom
00:27:58

True. Absolutely true. That one.

That's the thing is that when you, when you throw a pizza party, you know you want to have a little something for people to nosh on ahead of time and you want something a little sweet. I was at a buddy's house and he's got a big backyard, wood fired oven, chimney and all. And you could put 216 inches in there at a time.

I mean, it's big. But he has this thing that he saves one.

One big piece of dough, and he rolls it out fairly thin and then just brushes it with melted butter and puts on cinnamon sugar and throws it in until it's bubbly.

Arnold
00:28:34

Yes.

Father Dom
00:28:34

And that's dessert? That's dessert. A little bit of French vanilla ice cream. Holy smokes.

You'd think something that simple, like you've had cinnamon sticks from some pizza, but. And they're okay, but they're too much. You know, they feel like too much. This is just enough. It's just the right amount of dessert. He really.

It was a revelation. I had never done anything like it before. I do it now myself because it's just a great way to get a dessert at the end of a meal.

I'm a great fondant for biscotti as well.

I think that's always a great ending to a pizza meal because they're fairly light and you can a small dollop of ice cream with that and a biscotti or two seems like a good ending to a meal.

Arnold
00:29:14

Or if you wake up in the middle of the night and just want a little something.

Father Dom
00:29:18

Yeah, yeah. I tell you, one of the things that I'm working on right now is I don't know if people know what punzels are. A lot of people in St. Louis, I'm sure do.

It's those crisp cookies, usually anise flavored, that are made in like a thin waffle iron and make it very thin. And they're usually a flat cookie sprinkled with powdered sugar. People make them at Christmas mostly.

I discovered that you can make those in a variety of flavors. And when they come off the iron, roll them up around a cannoli tube and you can fill them with cream.

Arnold
00:29:49

Oh, my gosh.

Father Dom
00:29:51

So it's easier than cannoli because cannoli have to be fried and the dough takes longer and it's a little messier. Those gazelles, you can make 60 of them in about an hour and a half. So you just roll them up on a cannoli tube. They firm right up.

It slides right off. And then you can fill those. I made them at Christmas with gingerbread flavored gazelle, and then I filled them with cinnamon cream.

And they were a revelation, let me tell you. So I'm thinking that's going to be my new dessert. Go to dessert for pizza parties is going to be thinking ways to use that.

Arnold
00:30:25

I'm going to go back and write that down and try that. That sounds delicious.

Father Dom
00:30:31

And I'm embarrassed to say that's not in the book. I wish I had got that recipe sooner, but I just started doing it this Christmas.

Arnold
00:30:37

That'll be ready for a third edition then.

Father Dom
00:30:39

That'll be ready for the third edition, yeah. So when I get my pizza podcast.

Arnold
00:30:43

Yeah, Thursday night pizza, it could be any night pizza. But why Thursday night pizza?

Father Dom
00:30:49

Well, in our community, we have a tradition for Thursday nights and tonight to have a little card party and have snacks. And so people play uno, or it used to be. It had some older members used to play bridge.

We don't do that now, but it's just a night when you have a community night. And so I thought we'll name it after that because that's where I really learned to make pizza.

Our father, Ronald, who is Italian, he spent a lot of time in Europe, went to school there, and he. He started making pizzas for the community, but he didn't like making the dough, so he brought me on board to make the dough.

And then the next thing, I'm like making my own sauce from the herb garden and. Okay, it's all yours. I just started creating recipes for the community.

That's where I got the idea for that Italian beef pizza that uses the garlic beef, but the bottom layer is smoked mozzarella. I don't smoke cheese in a pizza.

She's a smoked mozzarella over your sauce, and then the garlic beef and then your lightly sauteed green pepper and onion and a layer of provolone on the top of that. It's like getting an Italian beef sandwich and pizza at the same time. I served this once at a Super bowl party, and people stopped watching the game.

It's like it was no longer important, which down it was, because I wanted to get some of this down to my belly. It was just. It was quite remarkable. I've also been enjoying experimenting with, like, hotter kinds of pizzas.

Sometimes people ask me, can you make something, like, really hot?

And so I've got a pizza diavolo that has a little more heat to it that uses that hot chardiniera that people usually use in Chicago, but you can find it all over. And I use that as the vegetables for it. And then you add a little hot sauce to your regular sauce and might use pepper jack cheese.

And a lot of times I've served that to people and they say, wow, that is not as hot. I thought it was going to be, and it's really good. So that would be a way to Experiment with. Have put a little heat in things without overdoing it.

I've had hot things before.

Like, I went to someplace to get a hot meatball sandwich, and after the first bite, I'm like, I don't even know what I'm supposed to taste besides pain.

Arnold
00:33:03

Right.

Father Dom
00:33:05

It's just a little too much for me. But. But yeah, I do. Experimenting with a little bit of heat on a pizza as well. That's the thing I like about pizzas because it is so versatile.

Your topping is going to be whatever you've got at home, and the flavor profile is whatever you like best. You can go pretty much anywhere with it.

I will say I'm not a person who has ever and will not ever make a taco pizza because I believe that tacos are perfect just as they are and can be left alone as far as I'm concerned. And I grew up without a real affinity for barbecue sauce, so I'm not in that barbecue chicken camp. Some people like that a lot.

I just don't ever go that direction. But I know people who love it, and I've even advised them on what sauce to use or how to accompany it and so forth.

But those are two things that I find, just not a direction I would go. And in case you're wondering if I can come down on one side or the other, if you want to put pineapple your pizza, go ahead.

I love this something Eric gets that.

Mark
00:34:09

Sounds like you're not all for that at all.

Father Dom
00:34:11

I just. I'm a little cautious because it's possible my Italian grandfather will rise out of his grave and beat me.

But I have to really feel that you want to do. But if you're going to do that, please use fresh pineapple, these fresh pineapple, and a slightly higher quality of ham.

And then don't use Moz as your cheese. Use something else like Havarti or Manchego or something that gives it a little more, you know, a little different flavor profile.

Mark
00:34:40

Bless you for even trying to do it right. I appreciate it.

Father Dom
00:34:44

I'm the only one at the only.

Mark
00:34:46

That, like, tolerates it. I guess I'm okay with not my go to pizza, but I. I'm okay with it.

Father Dom
00:34:53

I've had it. I think I've eaten it once in my life, and it was not bad. I thought it could be improved by fresher pineapple and a different cheese.

That's my, my, my take on it.

Arnold
00:35:03

There you go. At the beginning of our conversation, you talked about the word companion. And my question is, how is Baking a spiritual experience.

Arnold
00:35:14

Because you talk about that a little bit in a.

Arnold
00:35:16

In an interview that you gave with someone.

Father Dom
00:35:19

Oh, yeah.

First off, just because there's a nostalgia element to it, there's a certain way it feeds your spirit, but there's a certain aspect of baking that also is outward looking. Like I said, we usually bake bread and share it with somebody. We usually. And so there's a sense it's a generous act to bake bread.

That's a spiritual thing.

Now, from my standpoint as a Roman Catholic and a Christian, the importance of the bread of life and the Eucharist and so forth just adds a whole other layer to it. So I'm thinking about the multiplication of the loaves. I'm thinking about the Last Supper when I'm in the kitchen kneading or shaping the dough.

I think that becomes part of it. I'm thinking of a lot of Bible verses that talk about bread.

And so that's kind of part of my interior landscape that just comes to my conscious mind when I'm baking.

But I think the main reason it seems like a spiritual experience, even apart from a religious experience, the main reason it's a spiritual experience is because it is outward looking. Because you make bread to share, you make bread to break bread. And I think that's a really positive thing.

And as I said, there's a therapeutic aspect to it in that you slow down and you have to be patient and the dough has to rest. And there's a physical aspect to it with the kneading, if you need by hand.

And there's an attention to detail that is a good thing that also can give us get our minds to focus when we're feeling scattered. All of that. It's better than aromatherapy because you can't eat a lighted candle.

Arnold
00:37:00

You don't want to try either.

Father Dom
00:37:02

Yeah, yeah. When you're done, then when you're done, you have a tangible object that can be admired and shared. Well, yeah, that's a deeply spiritual experience.

It's like the way that a person might have a spiritual experience while crocheting a sweater for a loved one, you know, or sewing a garment of some kind. You make a layette set for a baby. That's an act of love. So it's that same thing that you're baking always, I feel, is always outward looking.

And therefore the way that nourishes your spirit and somebody else's.

Arnold
00:37:31

You've embraced this bread making and being a bread monk. And I would even add like a breadhead, you're the Jerry Garcia of a deadhead. You're the breadhead guy.

And maybe you should get some psychedelic shirts when people come to see you. You've embraced this in a very humble way. And when you started this, did you think this would end up where it is right now?

And where's it going to go?

Father Dom
00:37:58

I wasn't. When we. When they first came to me, they said somebody had mentioned my name to the producers in St. Louis at the public television there.

And they said, we want to hear more about this monk guy. So they came to watch me teach. They wanted to see, what do you look like live and without a net as a teacher? And so they came, I'm not kidding you.

Without changing my lesson plan or curriculum even by a day. They showed up on the day that I did the multiplication of the Logan.

Arnold
00:38:27

Oh, poor.

Father Dom
00:38:30

So when I teach that class, I talk about different kinds of bread and how they symbolize different kinds of Christian ministry. If you put yourself in the reading, you could be Jesus or you could be one of the apostles or somebody in the crowd. But what if you're the bread?

What kind of bread are you going to be? I actually wrote this into a book I wrote called Bake and Be Blessed and what kind of bread you're going to be.

You might be garlic bread, which means your faith is so strong, it comes off of you like in waves. Or you could be caramel pecan cinnamon rolls, which means you just pour yourself out in generosity.

So I'm naming all these different kinds of breads and how they symbolize different ways to be a Christian minister. And Kurt sitting in the back in the tight desks, writing furiously in their suits.

And then literally, we went next door to my office after class, and they said, yeah, you've got it. We want to give you a TV show. Like what? Okay. I wasn't real sure about it at first, but my abbot thought it was a good thing.

He said, we can show people a 21st century monk in a way that show them what we're really like. You can tell monk stories and get people to understand our life. I thought, that's a positive thing.

So I really ended almost, not entirely under obedience. I was excited, enthusiastic about it, and so forth. But for me, I thought, there's so many cool breads out there. And I was very enthusiastic.

And a lot of the people who were involved in public television at that time said, oh, that sounds like a special. That doesn't sound like a whole series. By the time we were in our second season, 72% of the American market.

Arnold
00:40:04

Wow.

Father Dom
00:40:05

You know, in public television. So because PBS stations can pick which programs they want to watch, there are some that go everywhere, like Antiques Roadshow. That's everywhere.

Other programs these programmers can pick and choose. And we did surprisingly well. Within two years we were really doing well. And I certainly did not expect it to be quite so.

I did not expect to be recognized in airports. Let's say that that's great.

Mark
00:40:30

I can see that network picking you up.

Father Dom
00:40:32

What was really funny too is that when I would do these media tours, I would. I would be recognized in various places. And I had sometimes sitting somebody on a plane or whatever.

One time I was in an airport, it was at the end of a media tour. It was a week long or it was. Was so tired. I just did not want to be famous guy on tv. And somebody came up to me and said, aren't you Father Dominic?

I regret I had to go to confession afterwards. I said, so many people have asked me that, but he must. Is he a Catholic? Fell paparazzi. I was just completely lying and not wanting to be okay.

If you ever meet him, tell him I said hi. Oh, just. It was so wrong on so many levels. But I just want to be that.

And I told a lot of people when I was on television, I would come home and still be responsible to clean the bathrooms on the third floor. Right. Still had to do my own laundry. I wasn't like there was. I didn't go Hollywood or anything. I was living the life just like every other month.

I just had this other kind of side gig and. And which I think turned into a kind of ministry.

Arnold
00:41:44

Absolutely.

Father Dom
00:41:45

I had a woman write to me. No, I was at a food event there in St. Louis. It was in St. Charles. It was food and wine show. And a woman came up to me.

We had the meet and greet and book signing thing. And this lady came up to me, elderly woman, and she said, I want to thank you for comforting my husband in his last illness.

And I said, what do you mean? She said, he was bedridden and he would begin agitated. And I put your program on Saturday mornings. And it was so calming to see you make the bread.

And you had an uplifting spiritual message. And he just didn't want to miss your show ever because he found it so comforting. She's crying. I'm crying. Everybody around him is crying.

But it was just a really beautiful moment to see it wasn't just about bread. The show isn't about bread, really. And a lot of the stuff That I do is not about bread. I tell people, people do not need recipes.

They need reasons to bake.

Arnold
00:42:45

Very good.

Father Dom
00:42:45

It's not the recipe. It's the idea that, okay, it's Christmas and I want to do something special or my heritage happens to be Lithuanian.

What can I do to connect to that past? Or I remember Grandma made xyz. I need to find that recipe. You need a reason to bake. And that's why I do all those side stories.

That's why you see those notes at the bottom or the side is so that people read that and say, oh, I want that for my family too. And then they'll make the bread. It's not about the recipe. People look at the recipe and say, oh, that sounds good.

But if they see the story and think, oh, that sounds so lovely, so meaningful, they're much more likely to try the recipe.

Arnold
00:43:24

We've been talking to Father Dominic Garamone. He is Father Dom to many people because they've seen him on pbs and he's been our guest here today.

And we've been talking about the Thursday night pizza, second edition. Father Dom, it's been a lot of fun talking to you and getting enthused about making pizza. And I know Mark and I, we're gonna.

We're gonna open the book up and we're gonna go forward.

Father Dom
00:43:52

Yeah. Keep me constant on your result.

Mark
00:43:56

I've been paging through it. I had to ask my wife and Maria about the pizza Margherita. She said, mark, that's just a normal pizza, really, With a name like Margarita.

Father Dom
00:44:11

Father, we would love to come and.

Mark
00:44:12

Visit you and have you cook for us.

Father Dom
00:44:14

The monastery has guest rooms. I do receive visitors.

Arnold
00:44:18

There you go, Mark. Father Dom, thanks for coming on the show.

Father Dom
00:44:24

My pleasure. I'm really appreciated that you've had excellent questions, and I hope that people will get out there and break some bread together.

Arnold
00:44:32

Excellent.

Arnold
00:44:32

Thank you. Wow.

Arnold
00:44:33

We really appreciate it. Your time and the book's great. I remember watching the show and I remember when you talked about the dough whisk.

Went out and got one of those and just a great time. And you're doing a wonderful ministry with the students there, but also with everybody else through your books and through the videos.

So thank you very much.

Father Dom
00:44:53

A lot of those kids are ending up in the kitchen with me, too. There's a couple of parents who thank me every time I see him because they're like, my kid makes pizza every.

Arnold
00:45:00

Friday, and who better to learn from than the pizza guru guy.

Father Dom
00:45:05

Exactly. Why not from the Pizza guru. Yeah. At the monastery. Thank you very much, guys. I enjoyed this a lot.

And not every radio interview is enjoyable, but this was very pleasant. I appreciate it very much. You guys are awesome.

Arnold
00:45:18

Thank you, sir. Take care.

Father Dom
00:45:20

Okay. You're welcome. Gotta get to class. Bye bye. Bye bye.

Arnold
00:45:23

What a fun time with Father Dominic Mark.

Mark
00:45:26

He's really quite a guy.

Arnold
00:45:28

He is. And for being some of the things that he also is. I didn't mention this. We know he's a monk. We know he's an author, he teaches, he's a writer.

But I didn't know this. He's also director. He's drama director, and he's published two plays. I didn't know that.

Father Dom
00:45:44

Wow.

Mark
00:45:46

Quite a compliment.

Arnold
00:45:47

Children's book author, the recipient of the 2011 Children's Christopher Award for children's books.

Mark
00:45:53

Man.

Arnold
00:45:53

And the Catholic Press association first place award for children's books. He's also an online baking instructor@blueprint.com and.

Mark
00:46:03

Even still does masses on Sundays.

Arnold
00:46:07

Yeah. He's just a really well rounded guy and he's very down to earth. He's not hoity toity or stuffy or.

He knows that, hey, everybody's the same and that's who we are. And he does. His show was wonderful. His show was just. It was just like you were sitting there like you knew him for a long time.

But he also encouraged us to call him back around holiday times.

Mark
00:46:30

I'm looking forward to it. I really am.

Arnold
00:46:32

And he was too. I think he had a great time.

Mark
00:46:35

And his book. Get the book. It's really a fun book.

Arnold
00:46:38

Yeah. And there's. There's more to pizza in there.

Mark
00:46:40

Oh, yeah.

Arnold
00:46:41

There's sauces in there, there's appetizers in there.

Mark
00:46:44

It's a fun book to look through.

Arnold
00:46:47

It is. It is. So I have our word of the day, which is actually relates to food. And I never heard this before. I don't know, maybe you've heard this.

The word is ort, O R T. And it's a small amount of food that's left at the end of a meal.

An example would be they ate ravenously and when they had finished, the orts would not have been enough to feed a mouse. Have you ever heard of that?

Mark
00:47:12

No, never have.

Arnold
00:47:13

This must be all this old English kind of stuff.

Mark
00:47:15

No. And they didn't have two boys, two strapping boys at the dinner table.

Arnold
00:47:20

Yeah. Do they go through a gallon of milk a day?

Father Dom
00:47:23

Yes.

Mark
00:47:24

And anything left on my plate, any of my orts, they all bat clean up for orts yeah, they were the. They were the orts. They were my orts. Like you to be my orts. Orts one and orts two. They do. They eat everything I got. Yep.

Arnold
00:47:41

Now, you told me before we started the show that you had some very. A really powerful and wonderful kind of day of the day for me today.

Mark
00:47:51

Yeah. You know, we always try to celebrate each day with something special and new. So today. Today is one of your favorite days.

It's called National Grammar Day. It's imperative that we speak well, write well, and help others to do the same.

Arnold
00:48:08

Absolutely.

Mark
00:48:09

I don't. I know I have problems when I try to help other people, like, with their grammar. Do you ever correct them? Yes, I do. I hate to say it. I do.

Arnold
00:48:19

Yeah. Some people really don't like that. I know. I think what it matters is how it's done. You know, if they say.

If they say it right away to correct you, it's like rather than saying, you know. Well, you know, I. I've heard it said that way, but I've also heard it said this way.

Mark
00:48:35

Oh, see, you're. You're much more. You could have been a politician.

Arnold
00:48:38

No, because I like.

Mark
00:48:39

Please. Thank you. May I?

Arnold
00:48:42

May I?

Arnold
00:48:43

It's.

Mark
00:48:44

Can I. I can't. It's like, come on.

Arnold
00:48:47

Yeah. May I? Right.

Mark
00:48:48

May I. Can I? No.

Arnold
00:48:51

I don't know.

Mark
00:48:51

Have you ever. Right, right. My parents were sticklers about it. My mom was an English teacher. I was going to say at Webster College.

Arnold
00:49:00

Yeah.

Mark
00:49:00

When it was the college.

Arnold
00:49:01

Well, that's where it comes from.

Mark
00:49:02

I know. And so she would always, like. Nah, she'd just jump right in.

Father Dom
00:49:07

She didn't care.

Arnold
00:49:08

She didn't sugarcoat it.

Mark
00:49:09

No. She never would. No. No. So. Yeah. So do you. Do you correct people? Oh, you said you do. Like. I know, it depends, you know, on what they're saying.

Right, right.

Arnold
00:49:20

Sometimes, you know, if it's kids, you want them to speak.

Mark
00:49:24

Right.

Arnold
00:49:25

Better.

Mark
00:49:25

Yes, you do.

Arnold
00:49:26

Correctly. If it's an older person, I'm not going to mess with that.

Mark
00:49:29

Yep. Let's see, what else do we have? A scrapbook industry day. I don't know.

Arnold
00:49:35

Some people are really into scrappy.

Mark
00:49:36

Never did that.

Arnold
00:49:37

No.

Arnold
00:49:37

I didn't either.

Mark
00:49:38

Ski day. Wall street day. Do you waltz?

Arnold
00:49:40

I do not ever waltz.

Mark
00:49:41

Never waltz.

Arnold
00:49:42

I have waltzed a couple times.

Mark
00:49:43

A pound cake day. Do you like pound cake?

Arnold
00:49:45

I do, yeah.

Mark
00:49:47

Safety day.

Arnold
00:49:48

Pound cake. Safety day.

Mark
00:49:50

I know. Sportsmanship day. Come on. Every day should be sports toy soldier day.

Father Dom
00:49:55

Yep. And this.

Mark
00:49:57

This is actually the old inauguration Day.

Arnold
00:50:00

Yeah. In March. That's correct. That's correct.

Mark
00:50:03

Yep. The old lame duck. Yep. I've got more, but I'm gonna Mardi Gras.

Arnold
00:50:08

I think this Mardi Gras coming up. Yes.

Mark
00:50:10

Right. National Marching Band Day.

Arnold
00:50:11

Oh, love that. Love that.

Mark
00:50:13

I used to have a friend that would hire marching bands for events. You'd be in the middle of the event, and a marching band would bust.

Arnold
00:50:20

Right in, you know, and that's the thing in being in band and being a band director. It's like whenever there's something in the community, get the band. Yeah, yeah. It's like. Like we don't have anything else to do, you know?

What, are we at your beck and call all the time?

Mark
00:50:34

They are. I know, I know, I know.

Arnold
00:50:38

Okay, so I have a couple funnies here.

Mark
00:50:41

Okay.

Arnold
00:50:42

That and. And this may shock you, Mark, but what if grocery stores closed and we have to hunt for our food? I don't even know where Little Debbie lives.

Mark
00:50:54

Oh, my goodness.

Mark
00:50:56

Wow.

Arnold
00:50:57

You know, it's a cold day when your teeth start chattering and they're still on the nightstand.

Mark
00:51:03

Is that cool with Bridges, too? I got a bridge. I haven't had mine screwed in yet.

Arnold
00:51:15

To my children. Don't make fun of me for asking questions about my cell phone. I once taught you how to use a spoon.

Mark
00:51:22

That's so true.

Arnold
00:51:25

You know, here's a sign that said, what if I told you you read the top line wrong? Here we go. Win a free ride in a police car just by shoplifting from this store.

Lucky winners can also get their name in the newspaper for their friends and family to see. Won't mom be so proud of you?

Mark
00:51:45

Yes, that's it.

Father Dom
00:51:46

Yeah.

Mark
00:51:47

Hear it?

Arnold
00:51:51

Having a dog named Shark at the beach was a big mistake.

Mark
00:51:55

Oh, no. No, it's not. I love that. That's a great idea.

Arnold
00:51:58

Husbands. Now, this is some advice for husbands. Not really, but husbands, if your wife does something wrong, just explain it to her how your mom did it.

She will appreciate your advice and strive.

Arnold
00:52:07

To do it as she did.

Mark
00:52:08

Yeah, right. Sure.

Arnold
00:52:11

And yet again this morning, no one was standing next to my bed saying, your royal highness, here is your mimosa.

Mark
00:52:17

That's right. I have a car helper.

Arnold
00:52:25

And today I found out that if you treat others how they treat you, they seem to get very upset.

Mark
00:52:35

No kidding.

Arnold
00:52:36

That's really true, isn't it? I had a really good one. I can't find it.

Father Dom
00:52:40

And you will receive some parting gifts from us.

Mark
00:52:42

Thank you so very much.

Arnold
00:52:43

Thank you. Thank you. That's Gosh, what's his name?

Mark
00:52:47

Right. Hands on those buzzers, please, but please.

Father Dom
00:52:50

Don'T pop those buttons until an answer is exposed.

Arnold
00:52:53

Art Fleming.

Mark
00:52:54

That's it. Thank you. I knew it would come to you.

Arnold
00:52:57

I was buffering. Not to brag, but I just got hired as a fitness model. They hired me as the before picture.

And lastly, I had the Rudis, slowest and nastiest cashier today. I guess it's my own fault for using the self checkout link.

Mark
00:53:20

Wow, that'd be about the worst one yet.

Arnold
00:53:26

Folks. Don't forget to check out Father Dom's book.

We will post that on the podcast page so you can get that and make some unbelievable kinds of pizzas, appetizers and sauces. Well, that's all for this hour. We thank you for listening. If you've enjoyed this episode, you can listen to additional shows@stluntune.com.

consider leaving a review on our website, Apple Podcasts, Podchaser, or your preferred podcast platform. Your feedback helps us reach more listeners and continue to grow.

I want to thank Bob Berthiselle for our theme music, our guests, Father Dominic Garamoni and co host Mark Langston. And we thank you folks for being a part of our community of curious minds. St.

Luis in tune is a production of Motif Media Group and the US Radio Network. Remember to keep seeking, keep learning, walk worthy, and let your light shine. For St. Louis in tune, I'm Arnold Stricker.