Mapping History: The Story of St. Louis in Cartography
Explore the fascinating history of St. Louis through the lens of unique and rare maps in this engaging podcast episode. Arnold Stricker and co-host Mark Langston sit down with Andy Hahn, the author of "Mapping St. Louis: A History of the Gateway City in 40 Rare Maps." Hahn shares his lifelong fascination with maps, detailing how they reveal the evolution of the city from its early days to the present. The discussion highlights the significance of various historical maps, including a powerful redline map that illustrates the enforced segregation in St. Louis. Listeners will gain insights into how maps serve not only as navigational tools but also as vital historical documents that tell the stories of the places we inhabit.
A compelling discussion between Arnold Stricker, Mark Langston, and guest Andy Hahn, centered around Hahn's new book, 'Mapping St. Louis: A History of the Gateway City in 40 Rare Maps.' Key theme to listen for is the significance of maps as not just navigational aids but as critical historical records that encapsulate the story of St. Louis over the centuries. The dialogue begins with a humorous yet serious exploration of how modern technology has changed the way we navigate our world, alongside a nostalgic reflection on traditional map-reading skills that may be fading away.
Hahn passionately shares his lifelong fascination with maps, which originated in his childhood home filled with historical artifacts and large maps. His narrative intertwines personal anecdotes with the broader historical context of St. Louis, showcasing how each of the 40 maps in his book serves as a snapshot of the city at different points in time. Listeners are taken on a journey from the city's founding days through significant developments, including the evolution of neighborhoods and the impact of socio-political changes that shaped the city's landscape. Hahn's insights illuminate the connection between geography and the lived experiences of St. Louisans, highlighting the importance of understanding one's environment.
The episode also addresses the darker aspects of mapping history, particularly the use of maps in systemic segregation practices like redlining, which have had long-lasting effects on the city's demographics and cultural fabric. This discussion prompts listeners to reflect on the implications of historical maps and how they can inform our understanding of contemporary issues. By the conclusion of the episode, the hosts and Hahn leave the audience with a deeper appreciation for maps as powerful tools that tell the story of a city, its people, and their collective journey through time.
Presentation and Book Signings
- October 14, 6-7pm: Florissant Historical Society, Gittemeier House
- October 20, 3-6pm: Campbell House Museum
- November 3, 2-3:30pm: Stupp Pavilion at Tower Grove Park
- November 6, 12-1pm: Landmarks Association of St. Louis
- November 16, 2-3pm: Thomas Sappington House Museum
- November 17, 2-4pm: Kern Pavilion a Lafayette Park
- November 24, 2-4pm: Campbell House Museum
- January 11, 10-11:30am: Ulysses S. Grant National Historic Site
- February 6, 6:30-8pm: Missouri History Museum
- February 16, 1:30-3pm: Carondelet Historical Society
Links referenced in this episode:
This is Season 7! For more episodes, go to stlintune.com
#maps #stlouismaps #reedypress #cartography #mappinghistory #raremaps
Thank you for listening. Please take time to rate us on Apple podcasts,
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00:00 - None
00:00 - Introduction to Mapping and St. Louis
00:04 - The Importance of Traditional Maps
00:08 - The Consequences of Technology Failure
00:16 - History of St. Louis and Its Maps
01:56 - Welcoming Guests and Building Community
04:05 - Introducing Andy Hahn and His Book
04:49 - The Fascination with Maps
07:44 - The Rare Maps of St. Louis
07:50 - Exploring the First Map of St. Louis
41:47 - Impact of Maps on Social Structure
53:01 - Conclusion and Book Signing Events
Arnold Stricker
How do you find your way around the city or around the state or around the country? If you're traveling, maybe you use some of the electronic maps that you find on your phone.
But what happens if we had an EMP blast and none of that worked? Do you know how to read a map? We're going to talk about mapping St. Louis. A history of the Gateway city, and 40 rare maps on St. Louis in tune.
Welcome to St. Louis in tune, and thank you for joining us for fresh perspectives on issues and events with experts, community leaders, and everyday people who make a difference in shaping our society and world, I'm Arnold Stricker, along with co host Mark Langston. Mark Langston, how are you?
Mark Langston
I'm fine. I'm fine. I like old fashioned maps, so I'm excited about the show today.
Arnold Stricker
I do, too.
Mark Langston
Aeronautical charts. You see those?
Arnold Stricker
The maps that I'm most unfamiliar with are the maps of the sky. Yes. Like the constellations.
Mark Langston
Oh.
Arnold Stricker
And stuff like that. I just never was able to figure.
Mark Langston
That out in my scouting days.
We have an app where you can actually put it in there, and you hold it up to the skyd, and it gives you all the constellations and things you're looking at. We do that for our astronomy merit badge.
Arnold Stricker
I only got the big and the little dipper. That was the only ones I ever got.
Mark Langston
And where is the North Star?
Arnold Stricker
It's at the end of the Big Dipper, kind of pointing this way, right?
Mark Langston
I think it's the little dipper. I think it's a little different.
Arnold Stricker
I don't know. I'd be lost. I wouldn't know. The north side.
Mark Langston
And the mosses on what part of the tree?
Arnold Stricker
The north side.
Mark Langston
Good. Okay.
Arnold Stricker
I do know that.
Mark Langston
So far, so good.
Arnold Stricker
And solar panels on the north side.
Mark Langston
If you're in, is that right?
Arnold Stricker
The southern hemisphere.
Mark Langston
Okay. See, I didn't know. That's something I didn't know. I'm learning things today. Okay. Wow.
Arnold Stricker
We learn a lot on this show. We also try to help people be civil.
Mark Langston
Oh, it's about time.
Arnold Stricker
If you see someone looking for a place to sit and you have an empty chair at your table, wave them over and offer them the seat. If you don't know the person, it's a great way to get to know someone new.
Now, a lot of people, they really don't want to engage people they don't know. It might be just their personality type. It might be that they're just not comfortable talking to people and being outgoing.
When someone's looking for a place to sit, and the place is packed. Hey, we've got one right here. Come on over here.
Mark Langston
I have no strangers when I'm around. My kids always say, dad's making friends again.
Arnold Stricker
My wife says the same thing about you.
Andy Hahn
She says the same thing.
Mark Langston
And I've had more fun just talking to random people and.
Arnold Stricker
Yeah.
Mark Langston
Cause nobody expects you to talk to them. No, it's true.
Arnold Stricker
And you can learn a lot from people, and that's how we have a lot of people on the show. I talk to people all the time, man.
Mark Langston
I know.
Arnold Stricker
We get finding out what they're doing.
Mark Langston
I know.
Arnold Stricker
It's crazy. It's like our guest today.
Mark Langston
We're gonna talk to Andy eventually, aren't we?
Arnold Stricker
We are.
Mark Langston
Just checking. Okay.
Arnold Stricker
Andy Hahn's been on the show before, and he was on the show when we had Suzanne Corbett on with us. We talked about the, oh, it's a.
Andy Hahn
Feast for President Grant's birthday.
Arnold Stricker
President Grant's birthday was. I'm trying to get, it's the table to the gilded table and the, from.
Andy Hahn
The farm table to the gilded table.
Arnold Stricker
Farm table to the gilded table.
Andy Hahn
That was just about two years ago.
Arnold Stricker
I can't remember. I can't read my writing. That's part of my problem. Farm table to the gilded table. And that show is on stlintune.com dot. You can check that out.
That was very fascinating.
And my wife and I, several weeks ago went to the Campbell house, which, where Andy is the executive director of the Campbell house, and saw him there. And we went through that and. Amazing place. I highly recommend, if you've not been to the Campbell house in St. Louis, you need to go.
Mark Langston
Where is it? Where is it? Locust.
Arnold Stricker
It is on Locust Street. 15th and Locust street.
Mark Langston
Oh, okay.
Arnold Stricker
And we will talk more about that. But Andy's here to talk about this book. It's brand new, folks. Matter of fact, it's still warm from the printer.
I have to have some gloves on to hold it. It's called mapping St. Louis, a history of the gateway city in 40 rare maps by andrew W. Hahn. Andy, welcome back to St. Louis in tune.
Andy Hahn
Thank you. Appreciate the invitation.
Arnold Stricker
This book is crazy, and it's crazy good, folks.
Andy Hahn
I was gonna say, hopefully in a good way.
Arnold Stricker
Oh, in a great way. Because I've never seen some of these maps before in my life. And not that I'm a map connoisseur. I do love maps. I'm a nerd. As it far.
Growing up, I would read the encyclopedia britannica, and it sounds kind of weird, but I would go through and learn things that way. And when I go through here, I read things that I've never known before.
And there's a lot of pictures, there's a lot of words, but there are some things here that are just. They're just astounding. About the city of St. Louis.
Mark Langston
Oh, yeah. The history of St. Louis.
Arnold Stricker
Why did you write this book?
Andy Hahn
I have always been fascinated with maps.
From the time I was a little kid in my grandparents home in Webster Groves, they had a study, and on the wall of that study, in the 1950s, they put on the wall a giant map of the world, and they just didn't hang it. They used, like, wallpaper paste to, like, permanently affix it to the wall. So I grew up with that and was just, couldn't get enough of it.
They were big travelers. They would come back from a trip, and my grandma would point out on the map where they had been.
And when I was about five years old, I could, next to the map, there was this bamboo stick, and I could point out where Madagascar was and Norway. And that got me hooked on maps and just being interested in what they tell you about the world and the world today and history.
And then I, when I started to work at the Campbell house, my job is all about history and involves a lot of maps of the city, maps of the west. And so these kind of passion grew. And about ten years ago, I thought that would be a cool book.
You could tell the whole history of the city just through the lens of map. And that was the goal. And I think that's what I did.
Arnold Stricker
That's very interesting. You're a 7th generation St. Louisan. I've never met a 7th generation St. Louisan.
Andy Hahn
I think there's some that are 10th generation and more. But on my dad's side, he had an ancestor who was born here around the year 1800. And that's about the farthest I can go back in my family tree.
Arnold Stricker
Oh, gosh, that's crazy. So we use crazy on this show. It's like, unbelievable. That's that acronym there. So you were a student at St. Louis University.
You interned at the couples house. Now you gotta listen to his. He's got a pedigree background, mark in history, and he loves houses.
He interned at the couple's house, and then in 2003, he worked as director of the Campbell House Museum. And that's when you started there in 1851. Townhouse in downtown St. Louis.
You also serve on the American association of State and Local History, historic house committee and the board of Lafayette Park Conservatory and Friends of Tower Grove park. You're really engaged in a historical aspect of St. Louis and upholding that.
Did that come from spending time with your grandparents and seeing the map and all that kind of history?
Andy Hahn
Certainly. History was always my favorite subject. I always did, and I think that came out of that, those early days of learning about maps.
And this room in my grandparents house, where the map was actually a library, the one wall was floor to ceiling bookcases.
And so that just always got me reading and looking like you looking at books, looking at the atlas, pulling out the encyclopedia before you had a phone, that's how you got random facts, and now you just scroll, right? So, yeah, history has always been a passion. I've been very fortunate that I've been able to turn it into a career.
Mark Langston
What a great book, though, that it touches on so much history of St. Louis and the way that it does. It's fascinating.
Arnold Stricker
And you start back in 1760s.
Andy Hahn
Correct. The first map of St. Louis was made just a few years after the founding of the city.
It was produced in 1767 by a spanish officer who had been sent to St. Louis to figure out what the Spanish had. And it's the first map that shows the street grid of St. Louis streets and blocks. It's not very detailed.
It actually shows the whole confluence area. It goes down from the Merrimack river all the way up to Missouri, but right there in the middle is St. Louis. So that's a cool map.
And what I love about that map is it actually shows in 1767, there were more people living on the Illinois side of the river than the Missouri side of the river. People had been living here for many generations, but the founding of St. Louis started to bring people west.
Mark Langston
Exactly. Gateway to the west. Yeah, and that's something.
Arnold Stricker
And some of these maps are, like, full two pages, folks. Like, I'm going to show you. This is that map that Andy was talking about here. And I'm just.
I'm trying to get some people salivating so that they buy this book. There is just so much here. And where did you get access to these from? Do you own some of these?
Andy Hahn
I own a couple of.
Arnold Stricker
The Campbell house has some of these.
Andy Hahn
The Campbell house has some. I own a couple of the newer ones. That particular one actually lives in Madrid, Spain.
Arnold Stricker
What?
Andy Hahn
It was made for the spanish government, because St. Louis was part of Spain at the time, and it was drawn and sent back to Spain, and it's been there ever since.
Arnold Stricker
How did you find out about this?
Andy Hahn
About 100 years ago, it was, quote, rediscovered, because through the 19th century and early 20th century, St. Louisans didn't even know this early map existed. So I've learned about it. A guy named Charles Peterson, a book he wrote called Colonial St.
Louis in the 1940s. He has a really small black and white version of the map in that book.
So I sought it out, and thanks to the wonders of the Internet, it was relatively accessible.
Arnold Stricker
Wow, that's unbelievable. And map skills are something that I guess it's still taught.
My wife teaches social studies and history, so they still do compass rows and longitude and latitude and all that.
Is it because of the advent of electronic maps that we use Google maps and all those kinds of things, that we don't use maps anymore to track destinations or things like that? Is there something that can bring us back to that?
Andy Hahn
I write in the preface of the book that maps are more accessible and more used today than they ever have been because everyone has the most detailed atlas of the world in your pocket at any second. I think the skill that's lost is using that map to orientate yourself in your present space because your phone does that for you.
Your phone will tell you exactly where you are, and it will tell you exactly how to get to where you want to go. It will take, say, go 300ft, turn left, turn right, everything you need to know.
So that is a skill I think that's maybe lost a little bit or it's not as people aren't as comfortable with it as they used to be. I think another skill that's lost is the idea of mental map making and preparing for the book.
I read a couple articles by scientists who were really distressed that people aren't making mental maps like they used to.
And example of that would be you walk to school every day and you have that kind of map in your head about which terrain, the terrain and which way you turn and all that sort of thing. And people don't do that as much anymore, partially because of the phone.
I've got two high school kids and my daughter's a freshman, and I do carpool periodically, and there's two girls in the backseat, and the whole time they're doing this and they're not looking around. When I was a kid, you'd be looking out the window and thinking, oh, yes, Manchester Road. And you learn the landmarks and that sort of thing.
So I always tell them, put your phone away.
Arnold Stricker
Well, that's a great story. That's true.
Mark Langston
Yes. One of my favorite maps. I have many of them. But is a topographical map. We actually have framed one and put it on.
We have a vacation home, and it's on the wall at a vacation home. It shows you are right here, but it shows the terrain, it shows the creeks, and. You don't get that. I don't get that when I look at an iPhone map.
Andy Hahn
No, you don't.
Mark Langston
I don't get that.
Andy Hahn
It flattens the world.
Mark Langston
It does flatten the world. I think that's a good way to put it. And topographical maps are just like little stamps of an area, and it really zooms in on it. I love maps, myself.
Aeronautical charts. I love those, too.
Andy Hahn
They have a power. Draw you in. I can't really explain it, but I've found in writing this book that a lot of people have that desire to.
When you see it, you gotta see it more. You gotta study it more.
Mark Langston
Right. So it's historical.
Andy Hahn
Yeah. And it's present, too.
Mark Langston
Yeah. Good point.
Andy Hahn
So they have this unique draw, I think, that very few things in the world do anymore.
Arnold Stricker
And you can see some things that, like, I'm looking at the map St. Louis in 1780. Right now, that was done by August Schotto or Augusta, some people might say. And is this Campbell's gazetter of Missouri?
Is that related to the Campbell?
Andy Hahn
No, it's not.
Arnold Stricker
No different than a different one.
Andy Hahn
So that particular map was reprinted in an early guidebook to St. Louis, for lack of a better description. If you came here as a traveler in the gilded age, you would buy this book, and it had a huge fold out map.
And that map is actually a little bit later in the book, but in the front of the book, just like a good guidebook would have today, it gives you a little history of the place who founded it? When did people start to live there? How did it grow? And that map was used to illustrate the kind of growth of St.
Louis, because in 1780, the city was only three blocks wide from the river, so it went as far as the old cathedral, and that was the edge of the city.
Arnold Stricker
Wow. We've come a long way, baby.
Andy Hahn
We've come a long way. Yeah. And it stayed that way for a fairly long time. For about the first 60 years of our history, the city didn't grow in size very much.
It stayed pretty. There's another map from 1804, and the city's not a lot different.
Arnold Stricker
Not that much different.
Andy Hahn
Yeah. It hugs the riverfront, because the riverfront was the superhighway.
Arnold Stricker
Right.
Andy Hahn
Riverfront is how you came and left St. Louis.
Arnold Stricker
And this is all now the gateway mansion memorial. Yep.
Andy Hahn
That's all the arch grounds. Exactly.
Arnold Stricker
That's. That's unbelievable. I love to see different portions of on a map, what it was then and what it is now. And you can see how. And this is great, folks.
You can see how the city continues to grow as Andy goes through this chronologically. He gives history, and he also gives. You can visually see.
You're not only reading it, you're visually seeing it, which I like the pictures I do read, though.
Andy Hahn
And only maps can do that. Yes, pictures can do that. But, you know, it's so hard to read a picture. And, of course, in the early days, there weren't photographs.
But when you can see it, flatten the world, like we said, and see a. See it mapped out that way, you really get a sense of, oh, look, there's six more blocks here that weren't here five years ago, five years before.
So they're special in that way and a unique tool for historians.
Arnold Stricker
It is looking back when force or when. 1904, world's fair. That was no man's land, right? Wash u admin building. That was just out in the middle of nowhere.
And then when University City was established, that was, like, all farmland. And we think the city wanted to say, okay, we're gonna stop here at Skinker, because that's about as far as we're gonna end up going. Stinker skinker.
Mark Langston
I thought you said stinker.
Arnold Stricker
Skinker. Okay, and you look now, and we just drive out 64, and we just.
Andy Hahn
Keep going and going.
Arnold Stricker
Nothing going on there.
Mark Langston
I know. Kings highway was considered like the 270. It was the outer road of the right city at that time.
Now, I'm from Maplewood, and I love the maps of Maplewood, because Maplewood traded or sold a corner of Maplewood. So if you look at the old maps, it's almost a square.
If you look at the new maps, you can see where there's a bight taken out of it, where they traded with Richmond Heights, I think. And the housing stock is different there, too. They're brick and maplewoods mostly stick homes anyway.
But the map, seeing those maps, like you say, it's historical. It gives you a historical perspective of what's happened and then where you are now today. And I think it's fascinating and maybe where you're going.
Andy Hahn
The last map in the book is from 2021, and it is the new St. Louis Ward map. So the first. For the first time in St. Louis history, the political wards of the city were reduced.
And so now, as of 2021, we have 14 wards at the end of 28.
Arnold Stricker
Thank goodness.
Andy Hahn
So it's making for a lot of efficiencies, but it redrew the map, literally. And we're pretty lucky that they were quite careful in how they did it. The old wards cut up neighborhoods.
They were very willy nilly, and they went to a lot of effort to preserve neighborhood boundaries so that, you know, all of the central west end is in one ward, and before, I think, it was in three different wards.
Arnold Stricker
Yeah. Some of these earlier designations on this warden had four wards downtown.
Andy Hahn
Oh, yeah.
Arnold Stricker
Which was just, like, crazy.
Andy Hahn
Yeah. Makes no sense.
Arnold Stricker
We're lucky. We now we just have two.
Andy Hahn
Yeah. So it is.
That is something that's new, and it seems like it's leading to efficiencies, and it's great that neighborhoods are kept together politically. That's something. We're gonna watch and see where that.
Arnold Stricker
Leads, see how it works out. This is Arnold Stricker with Mark Langston of St. Louis in toon. We're talking to Andy Hahn about the book mapping St.
Louis, a history of the Gateway City in 40 rare maps, and it's available through Reedypress. And we're going to talk in a little bit about where Andy's going to be, and you can see him get the book signed, et cetera, et cetera.
What's the rarest map in here, Andy?
Andy Hahn
That's a great question. Probably that early 1767 map from Spain. There's a couple other hand drawn maps. The 1767 is a hand drawn map.
It's a manuscript, the one right in front of you from 1932, that's also a manuscript map, meaning that only one was created.
Those are probably the rarest ones because most of them are printed and were printed for some use, and maybe only ten were printed, but maybe a thousand were printed. It just depended on the map and what the audience was.
Arnold Stricker
And this is something I've seen on a lot of maps.
Historical maps is they will have some important places from the city that are drawn in, maybe historic events that happen, maybe historic people that are put around the border. Is that very common or not common as you find?
Andy Hahn
I discuss this map as an example of a pictorial map.
Arnold Stricker
Okay.
Andy Hahn
They're all different types of maps, and I wanted to include as many as possible in the book. And a pictorial map is not a map that is meant to be used for navigation.
It's a map that's meant to tell a story, and part of the story is, of course, told through the map, but it's also told through pictures, either pictures on the map or pictures around the map. And that's what that map does. It talks about the history of the city. It gives historical facts in the border, but also illustrates historical scenes.
So it illustrates the founding of St. Louis early, important buildings. It has another map in the border, that same map that we saw earlier from 1780 at the bottom.
So it's a map that's trying to do more than just show streets and the river, because, of course, the river is the most prominent feature on any St. Louis map. So you have, there's maps for navigation, maps that you would use to literally find your way.
There are, like, travel maps, tourist maps, a map that a tourist might get. There are scientific maps. An example of that would be the map in the book that illustrates the city water and sewer system.
Now, we take it for granted everyone has running water and a sewer, and that map is from 1884. The map, the water in sewers. So that tells a unique story. And that map was actually made for a medical convention here in St. Louis. There it is.
So it's the next before this.
Arnold Stricker
Wow, look at that mark.
Mark Langston
Oh, my. Oh, wow.
Arnold Stricker
No wonder it's all torn up downtown.
Andy Hahn
So that map was made for a health, like a healthcare, public health convention here in St. Louis in 1884. And it was meant to show how the city was progressing in terms of getting its residents sewered, clean water, and taking waste away.
And it's color coded. There's three colors on there.
But you'll probably note that when you just glance at the map, that at least half of the city in 1884 has neither running water or sewers.
Mark Langston
So what's the third color for? What was the third color?
Andy Hahn
So there's one color, green. That means that area of town had water and sewer.
Mark Langston
Okay.
Andy Hahn
Blue means it only had water and no sewer. And then there's a yellow color, and that's only sewer and no water. So it was growing, and sometimes they didn't grow at the same pace.
Mark Langston
I'm not sure what I'd want and not want. Water is pretty important, but sewer is pretty important. Yeah, sewers. I don't know. It's tough.
Andy Hahn
I think I would go for sewer, actually.
Mark Langston
Yeah. Really? I get that.
Andy Hahn
Garden always collect water and rain water.
Mark Langston
Right. Good, good, Andy.
Arnold Stricker
And then as part of that, like in 1884, then you go into a dialogue about the water history.
Andy Hahn
Yeah.
Arnold Stricker
And the sewer history to just give people a snapshot.
Andy Hahn
This was not meant to be a detailed study of any particular aspect of St. Louis history, but here's the map. We're gonna look at this story through the lens of this map.
And then I tried to tell a little bit of that story in about six or 700 words.
Arnold Stricker
So are you trying to get people to do more investigation on their own from looking at this and reading this book or finding goal?
Andy Hahn
I never thought of that, actually. I do hope that it really piques people's interest in the history of their city, whether they were born here or whether they are relatively new here.
So I'm hoping it just gets people thinking about the city they live in and all the different aspects of it, both past and present.
Arnold Stricker
Okay, this is Arnold Stricker with Mark Langston. We're talking to Andy Hahn about the book mapping St. Louis, and we're going to come back and talk more about that.
We're going to take a little break here. This is Arnold Stricker again with Mark Langston. You're listening to the us radio network.
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On behalf of the Dred Scott Heritage foundation, this has been Arnold Stricker of St. Louis in tune to. Welcome back, folks, to St. Louis. In tune with Arnold Stricker and Mark Langston.
Mark Langston
Yeah, we're having fun.
Arnold Stricker
We are. Andy Hans here talking about his book mapping St. Louis.
Mark Langston
Andy, have you ever seen big Bang theory?
Arnold Stricker
Yes.
Mark Langston
Okay. Sheldon Cooper has an episode, fun with maps.
Andy Hahn
Oh, I have not seen that episode.
Mark Langston
Is that right? You haven't seen it? Okay. It's a big episode.
Andy Hahn
Okay.
Mark Langston
You should look it up.
Andy Hahn
I'm gonna look.
Mark Langston
I will see fun with maps. He does a YouTube thing.
Andy Hahn
Okay.
Mark Langston
And it's called fun with maps. It is really very well done. You would enjoy it.
Andy Hahn
I will search it out.
Mark Langston
These are fun. Fun with maps.
Arnold Stricker
So if you want to get the book or see Andy get a book signing, he's gonna do some presentations and book signings. Monday, October 14, at the Florescent Historical Society. That's the Gittemire house. You know, that house was in danger of getting knocked down.
And I know it used to be. Was it? The barn was up there. They had a restaurant up there.
Andy Hahn
Right.
Arnold Stricker
That was vacated, and the house was.
Andy Hahn
Vacant for a while.
Arnold Stricker
Yes. So check that out. That's.
Andy Hahn
They've done great work up there.
Arnold Stricker
Yeah. 1067 Dunn Road in Florissant. That's October 14. October 20. He's going to be at a place that he doesn't know anything about.
That's the Campbell house museum. And we'll talk more about the Campbell house. Another at the stoop pavilion at Tower Grove park. That's November 3.
November 6 at the Landmarks association of St. Louis. I'm not familiar with that. That's 1805 South 9th street. We ought to talk about that. The Thomas Sappington house. Know where that said by that?
On the grant's trail. That's Saturday, November 16. That's a great day. That's my wife anniversary.
Mark Langston
Okay.
Arnold Stricker
Kern Pavilion at Lafayette park. That's Sunday, November 17. That's near the boathouse up there. The Campbell House Museum again on November 24. January 11. Ulysses S.
Grant National Historic Site. February 6, the Missouri History Museum. And lastly, but not least, February 16 at the Carondelet Historical Society.
We'll post that on the podcast page, and you can check those out and want to encourage you to go to see those. So I just flipped open the book to this page, Mark. It's the 1907 fire insurance map. I'm like, what in the world?
And you were pointing out at break, Andy, about. There's various colors here, but tell about the detail.
Andy Hahn
So these maps were created by companies to help insurance companies assessed the risk of insuring a property.
So back in the day, before Google street views and Google satellite views, which insurance companies use all the time, if you wanted to have insurance carried on your property, they would want to know, what am I insuring? How big is it? Where is it? What's it made out of? So on and so forth. So there were companies that specialized in making maps that told that story.
And they go back as far as the 1870s, and they map out the city in great detail. Not only do they show the streets, of course, but they show every building plotted on that street.
They give the address of that building, and then there's a little code in there that will tell you all sorts of things. How. What's the building made out of? Is it brick? Is it stone? Is it wood? What is the roof made out of? Is the roof tar? Is it slate?
How many stories is it? Where's the closest fire hydrant?
All this type of detail, which is proved invaluable to historians, to help us see what our cities are missing, what had been there. So it's a cool. It's a really cool set of maps. And through this map, I tell the story of city hall.
Arnold Stricker
Yeah.
Andy Hahn
Cause city hall in the early 20th century was brand new. A lot of people don't realize it took ten years to build St. Louis city hall, a gorgeous structure.
Mark Langston
I had no idea.
Andy Hahn
Not because construction was slow, it's just because the city only released so much money every year for the construction.
Arnold Stricker
So nothing's changed, has it? I'm surprised it's even complete now. Did I say that?
Mark Langston
Arnold's not bitter.
Andy Hahn
But after ten years, they eventually finished it and dedicated it. And we're lucky to have such a gorgeous structure.
Arnold Stricker
It is. And it's amazing to see all these homes right across the street.
Andy Hahn
Uh huh. So this is a parking lot today. This is the.
Arnold Stricker
We see parking lots down there.
Andy Hahn
We do, yeah.
Mark Langston
Wow.
Arnold Stricker
It's just amazing.
Mark Langston
I've noticed some of these old. Did they ever do anything with distances? I'd bring out a compass and some old maps. I use some of the old maps, though.
I'm looking, I'm going, how can I tell a distance? Like a mile or whatever.
Andy Hahn
So this map from 1882 does just that, ringing the circle ringing the center of the city. Of course, the center of the city is where the arches, the nucleus of the city.
There's a series of concentric rings that fan out will tell you how many miles. And this is actually a tourist map.
And so that map was meant to, when you bought it, it was folded and if you look carefully at this illustration, you can see all of the creases in the folds.
Mark Langston
Okay. And those were.
Andy Hahn
And you can see these rings. And that tells you how many miles you are from the center.
Mark Langston
I see.
Andy Hahn
So I think each one of these is 2 miles, if I'm not mistaken.
Mark Langston
Fascinating. Okay. Because I wasn't seeing a lot of that. And there they are. Okay. That's amazing. Yeah.
Andy Hahn
And you could see in this map from 1882 what we now consider that outer ring of the city of St. Louis is mostly empty. What's now St. Louis hills. Those whole neighborhoods don't even exist yet.
Arnold Stricker
And it has a street index on it also, which becomes probably a lot more prevalent as the city grows and develops.
Andy Hahn
And there's more streets.
Arnold Stricker
And these are very famous, these pictorial viewpoints. They're like birds eye views.
Andy Hahn
Exactly. Yeah. And for that map, actually, I didn't actually choose one of the viewpoints. I actually chose the key.
That is literally the key to understanding this work. It's a map of the city shown flat, but also shown in perspective, the same perspective as the views.
And that map is sliced up into 110 squares, and each one of those squares is numbered, and that's the plate to help you navigate yourself through the book.
Arnold Stricker
And they really get into the detail of that.
Andy Hahn
Yes. It's an amazing work. It is. Someone needs to write a work just on that book because it's an unbelievable.
It's the Compton and dry record of our city exactly. From 1875.
Arnold Stricker
You see these sometimes in antique stores. The plates or the reproduction of the plates and the books are very expensive if you get them at an auction or something like that.
Mark Langston
Oh, is that right?
Arnold Stricker
But you can go and go.
That building's still standing and seeing what it looks like or seeing what the downtown area like, this particular view that I'm looking at on page 54, it shows river boats down on the levee and multiple kind of boats, and people unloading things. And I see the old cathedral is in this particular. And the planter's house is there. I think that's the planter's house right there.
Andy Hahn
That's the merchants exchange, actually. The planter's house would just be a little bit of west.
Arnold Stricker
Okay.
Andy Hahn
Further. Yep.
Mark Langston
Did they have a schedule to redo maps, like, every year? Every two years. Was there any kind of. Was it just.
Andy Hahn
Well, I guess it ends on. It depends on the type of map. This street department here in the city of St. Louis maintains the official map of the city.
Mark Langston
Okay.
Andy Hahn
And they update that annually.
Mark Langston
Okay. Have they always done that since the.
Andy Hahn
Late 19th century, I think.
Mark Langston
Okay. Wow. There's a lot of, there's a lot of history.
Andy Hahn
Yeah. And that official map of St. Louis, the most important thing about that is the fact that all the block numbers are noted and the block numbers.
Every block in the city of St. Louis is given an official number.
And that's how all city services, real estate records, all those things refer to that block number because you can't really use an address because addresses change over time. The street name can change. Even the number of a building can change over a time, but the block numbers are constant.
Arnold Stricker
If you go online on the city's real estate site and you plug in an address, it gives you several kind of different maps at the very bottom as you scroll down, and it will show that residence in conjunction with the rest of the neighborhood, et cetera, like that. Wow.
Andy Hahn
And usually one of the first things on the description is block number. And it's a three or four digit number.
Mark Langston
I have seen that. That's interesting.
Arnold Stricker
I wonder if they keep a map of the potholes.
Andy Hahn
I doubt it. It would be a very complicated.
Mark Langston
He's not bitter, detailed map. We're gonna put a steel plate out in front of your house.
Arnold Stricker
Talking about the steel plates. They're wanting now to know.
There I was reading this in front of the board of aldermen was introduced that rather than put the plates on top of the pavement, they want them so the pavement is level with them. And the only reason Speyer said that we don't make them levels because we're not required to.
But in other municipalities and other cities, we are required to.
Andy Hahn
I don't think we're hard enough on our utilities to keep our streets.
Arnold Stricker
Oh, and also was there was that you can't tear up this brand new street that we paved last year until five. Five years go by.
Mark Langston
Oh, is that right? Wouldn't that be nice?
Arnold Stricker
Because common things is, we pave this, and then two days later, we're tearing it up or we're marking it up.
Mark Langston
With, why don't they fix it before they do it? Here we go. He's taking one of those exit ramps.
Arnold Stricker
One of the things that has been fixed up very nicely is the place where Andy is director. Is it director or executive director?
Andy Hahn
Executive director.
Arnold Stricker
Executive director. Campbell House. Give us a little history of Campbell House.
Andy, you've been there a long time, and it is a wonderful, I don't want to call it, it is a museum, but it's a house of history.
Andy Hahn
Yeah. I've been fortunate enough to work there for over 20 years.
Mark Langston
What? Get out of here.
Arnold Stricker
You don't look that old. Does he?
Mark Langston
No, he doesn't. Congratulations. That's really great.
Andy Hahn
So 20 years of my, wow. The bulk of my career has been spent there. And it is a special place. As you said, it's not just a museum and it's not just a house.
It's in many ways a living, breathing place. Even though the people that live there have been gone a very long time. The story of St.
Louis lives on in the what they left us in their furniture, in their carriages, in their papers. So we're open to the public five days a week and people come down and visit us.
And visit to us is maybe not like a lot of museums because at the Campbell house you're greeted at the front door and a docent actually walks with you through the entire building. So everyone gets a guided tour. And I know you were just there recently, and I think you will agree that really makes it extra special.
Arnold Stricker
Yes.
Andy Hahn
It's one thing just to walk in a room and kind of look around, but when there's someone there to tell you what was that room used for? What happened in that room? Or what's so interesting about that chair? That's what we do the best.
Arnold Stricker
Isn't it wonderful that President Grant was a dinner guest here in that house? Yes. And that he actually went out on the front porch or the front area when a band was playing out there.
Andy Hahn
And people were coming and he waved to the crowd. And there was five supposedly newspaper talks about 5000 people out in front of the house.
They knew the president was there and everyone wanted to get a glimpse of him. And he stepped out and he waved. And this is quoted in the newspaper and how the reporter got this, maybe he just made it up.
But standing next to him was misses Campbell, Virginia. And she said to him, or he said to her, you have no idea how exhausting this is to be feted.
And Misses Campbell supposedly replied, well, general, it's just to honor the people who love you.
Mark Langston
Yeah, good answer.
Andy Hahn
Yeah, that was a very diplomatic and very good answer. And how maybe the reporter was standing right there under them, I don't know. But I've always wondered how did they get that?
Arnold Stricker
Yeah. Had one of those miracle ears. I think what's very special about it is when you look at that house, the affluent area of St.
Louis, and it was originally called Lucas Place.
Andy Hahn
Exactly.
Arnold Stricker
And it's now Locust street. But the street was lined with these houses. And now it's the only one.
Mark Langston
Wow.
Arnold Stricker
The only one. And you have. And what was around it was one of the first high schools west of the Mississippi.
Andy Hahn
The first high school west of Mississippi opened in 1856. The St. Louis Art Museum was up the street. Washington University was literally just around the corner.
Mark Langston
Tear it all down.
Andy Hahn
Tear it all down.
Arnold Stricker
And it is the only representative house of that time that was considered out in the boonies.
Andy Hahn
Yeah, it was a mile from the river. And when it was built, people thought, why would you want to live so far away from all the action? A mile.
This is before streetcars, and you walked everywhere.
Mark Langston
You had to walk a mile.
Arnold Stricker
It has the original stone out front. You see this at Lafayette Square, also where it was a carriage step. So you would step on the stone, and then you could step up into.
Andy Hahn
The carriage, because the carriages have big wheels and they're much higher off the ground than any suv.
Arnold Stricker
They have some carriages at the Campbell house. Very interesting.
Mark Langston
Encourage everyone to go, yeah, that's open Monday through Friday.
Andy Hahn
No, it's open Wednesday through Saturday. Ten to four, and Sundays, noon to four.
Mark Langston
Okay, good.
Arnold Stricker
And you can literally go like we did. We just went right up, knocked on the door. No, a docent answered and took us on the tour.
Andy Hahn
Yeah. And the end of the year, we have a couple special things. The last two weeks of February, we recreate Robert Campbell's funeral. He died on October 17.
And like most people, he was buried from home. And because he was a prominent St. Louis, and the newspaper covered in great detail, his funeral, it is like two columns. They're like, this long.
And so we recreate that. There's a coffin in there and flowers and everything, black crepe draped. And so we do that through Halloween.
And it culminates in our twilight tours with the morning Society of St. Louis, the Friday before Halloween. And then from mid November through mid January, we have our old fashioned victorian Christmas.
Arnold Stricker
I don't think I knew how influential he was nationally at the time, not only financially. He was, like, one of the richest men in the country. And then his influence. Can you just give us a little bio about Mister Campbell?
Andy Hahn
He was an irish immigrant. He came to St. Louis as a teenager. This was over 200 years ago. He was 19 when he arrived here. And he made his first career.
And a name for himself in the fur trade that involved going west to the Rocky Mountains, where the beavers were. That was the most valuable. And that first trip involved a nine month trip. Nine month walk one way from St. Louis.
Mark Langston
A walk?
Andy Hahn
A walk. They walked because the horses were loaded down with all their goods that they were going to supplies and everything they were going to trade with.
So they walked next to the horses.
Mark Langston
Wow.
Andy Hahn
Eventually, he and a partner named Bill Sublette would start their own company. They would build a place called Fort Laramie, which became the halfway stop on the Oregon trail.
Sublette and Campbell would help found Kansas City, Missouri. After Sublette died, Robert would continue on his own and got involved in banking and steamboats and eventually the railroads.
And at the end of his life, he owned the largest hotel in St. Louis. It was called the Southern Hotel.
Arnold Stricker
And he was like one of the original mountain men.
Andy Hahn
Yeah. He was one of the first white Americans to see the grand Tetons and the Great Salt Lake and the geysers of Yellowstone when he was going out there.
The historians described the Rocky Mountains as a mystery, to the point where they make the comparison that we knew more about the moon when we set men there than they knew about the Rocky Mountains when the mountain men went there. It was that unknown. And of course, the trip to the moon was a lot faster than it was the Rocky Mountains. We figure a nine month walk one way.
Mark Langston
Wow. Oh, yeah. They had to come back, didn't they?
Andy Hahn
Yeah. Back was easier because you could float back. It was not for the. It was not for the faint of heart, for sure.
Mark Langston
Cannot imagine.
Arnold Stricker
Is there a surprise in here.
Andy Hahn
A surprise?
Arnold Stricker
Like, I look at these, I thought these maps were very interesting where they talk about densities. This is the density of the negro, population, trends of population, suicide rates that are mapped in here, what rentals.
And this is the irish population.
Andy Hahn
I think that set of maps is the most powerful. And the one that I feature in particular in the beginning of that section is what's called the redline map.
That was the map that really enforced segregation in St. Louis. That map was created from the 1930 census. And the name of the map is distribution of the negro population of St. Louis.
And in 22 districts, they plotted out how many residents in that area of the city were black.
And what the city officials and real estate agents did is they selected some of those districts, and they literally, on this map, drew red lines around the borders. And if you were a person of color in St. Louis before the 1960s, you could not buy property outside of those lines. So that's a pretty powerful map.
It really shows that if you were black, you could live here but not there.
Mark Langston
That's wrong.
Andy Hahn
Yeah.
Arnold Stricker
And it has percentages here also.
Andy Hahn
Yeah. So that's a powerful set of maps, those statistical maps from the 1930s census.
Mark Langston
Wow.
Arnold Stricker
We've come a long way in some things. This particular map I'm looking at is an aerial. It's the adult education council of greater St. Louis. What does this mean? Map tell us.
Andy Hahn
That map is interesting for a couple different reasons. One, it's in this crazy perspective.
Arnold Stricker
It is.
Andy Hahn
It's not just a looking down flatten the map. It's taken the map and tilted it and created this. Really.
I find it uncomfortable to look at, almost especially when you look at the western part of the city, because it seems distorted, almost. But that was the artist's intention. Not necessarily to make it uncomfortable, but to create that kind of perspective.
And the goal of that map was really to illustrate the educational opportunities in St. Louis in those years right after World War Two.
So where all the schools were, whether it was a high school or a university, where you could take classes, like at places like at the YMCA. It even notes on that map where the bookmobile stops are.
Mark Langston
Love it. Used to love the bookmobile. I don't know if they even do it anymore.
Andy Hahn
I don't know either. I love that too.
Mark Langston
Yeah. It's one of my favorite things.
Arnold Stricker
Is there anything you haven't covered in here? Like we have the educational.
Andy Hahn
Oh, sure.
Arnold Stricker
The real estate I had.
Andy Hahn
It was actually really difficult to winnow it down to 40. Maps.
Arnold Stricker
Really.
Andy Hahn
There are hundreds and hundreds.
Arnold Stricker
What are some ones that got left out?
Andy Hahn
They either got left out because there wasn't a good map for it. There's no maps that talk about religion or sports or things like that.
Mark Langston
Oh, those would be. Yeah.
Andy Hahn
But I don't know of any maps that really tell those stories.
Arnold Stricker
The archdiocese have some.
Andy Hahn
They probably might have one. I bet you they do. And maybe that's for the second. Volume two.
Arnold Stricker
Volume two, yes, that's right.
Andy Hahn
But there's not a topographical map in there. And we talked about that. I just ran out of room.
It would be really interesting to see a topographical map of the city because there's high ground very close to here. Just up the road at the Compton Hill reservoir. That's the high ground.
And then there's low ground down along the river de per, down along the Mississippi, right through the center of town. Right. The old Mill Creek.
Arnold Stricker
Yeah. The high point is across from the St. Louis. The Arsenal hospital. Right. It actually. There was a hospital there for.
It was essentially the prostitute hospital where they would treat. It was the hospital for. I think it was actually called the ill repute hospital of ill repute.
Mark Langston
Okay.
Arnold Stricker
And it got knocked down. But that was a park there. Right. Now. That is the highest point in St. Louis.
Mark Langston
Is that right?
Andy Hahn
Sublette park.
Arnold Stricker
Yeah. Siblet.
Mark Langston
And then there's a street called plateau. I know I've been on that street. It's way up there. You go on that street, you can see forever.
Andy Hahn
Yeah. The northwest part of the city, there's a neighborhood called Cote brilliant. And that's a really high part of the city as well.
There was a big open plain there historically, and that's where the wagon trains set out from. That's on an earlier map. What?
Mark Langston
Yeah. I like topographicals.
Arnold Stricker
Gosh.
Mark Langston
Fun with maps.
Arnold Stricker
I had a question, and it just eluded me.
Mark Langston
It eluded you?
Arnold Stricker
It eluded me. And that's not the word of the day. You have a map of the cyclone, the great cyclone in 1896.
Andy Hahn
That's a cool map because that was a map that was rushed to be made. On May 27, 1896, the cyclone ripped through St. Louis.
It is, to this day, the second most destructive tornado in american history in terms of loss of property and property value.
Arnold Stricker
Wow.
Andy Hahn
And just like today, when there is a horrible disaster that's newsworthy, people want to know all about it. Right? The news trucks are right there. They didn't have news trucks.
So what happened is photographers went to work, they took pictures of all this destruction. There's dozens of different books that show photographs of the tornado. There were newspaper accounts.
Of course, people then would compile those newspaper accounts in a book, and someone made a map, and he took a map that already existed, an existing map. And basically what he did is he had printed on top of that map this red splotch. And the red splotch shows the path of destruction of the tornado.
And it starts in the Clifton Heights neighborhood. And the twister is fairly small, but by the time it reaches about King's highway, it gets a lot bigger.
And by the time it reaches Jefferson Avenue, it's huge. And it just cuts a path of destruction. I think it's about 25 blocks wide, and it just leveled big sections, and.
Arnold Stricker
That was the main portion because there's areas around that still got some damage.
Andy Hahn
But inside those red lines is where you see devastation. Houses with no roof and two walls missing.
Arnold Stricker
That sort of the question I was going to ask you that eluded me. How long did this take?
Andy Hahn
I've been thinking about it for ten years, but in terms of sitting down and working on, it took me about six months.
Arnold Stricker
That's pretty good. That's pretty good. And how many hours a day?
Andy Hahn
About eight.
Arnold Stricker
Wow. 8 hours a day for six months full time.
Mark Langston
Job there.
Andy Hahn
I would come home from work and then I would sit at my desk.
Mark Langston
Oh, the family loved you.
Andy Hahn
My wife says, who are you? You just disappeared for a while.
I would take a break here and there, but there was some pretty intense weeks where I just came home and I sat at my desk all day.
Arnold Stricker
There's times when you're in a group you have to keep going.
Andy Hahn
Yeah. And when, like any project, it was hard to get started. It was really hard.
Mark Langston
Oh, yeah.
Andy Hahn
But once I got going, it just.
Mark Langston
Don'T want to quit.
Andy Hahn
Yeah.
Arnold Stricker
Yeah, you can. If I missed some questions for you folks, you can ask Andy at some of these places.
Monday, October 14 the Florescent Historical Society, the Gittemire House, October 20 at the Campbell House, November 3 at the Stub Pavilion at Tower Grove park. He's also going to be at November 6 at the Landmark association of St. Louis that's on South 9th street. The Thomas Sappington House on November 16.
November 17, the Kern Pavilion at Lafayette Park, Campbell House, November 24 Ulysses S. Grant National Historic Site, January 11 Missouri History Museum, February 6 and the Carondelet Historical Society on February 16.
I'll post those on the podcast page, stluntune.com and you can find that information. Andy, thanks for coming in and talking to us about this.
Andy Hahn
Great pleasure. Yeah, good to see you again.
Arnold Stricker
What a great book.
Mark Langston
Really appreciate it.
Andy Hahn
Glad you enjoyed it.
Arnold Stricker
Highly recommend it. I love that kind of stuff. Mark. And do you have, is this the day of maps or something? Is there a map day I haven't seen?
Mark Langston
No. We have love note day, which goes with lumberjack day.
Andy Hahn
Okay.
Mark Langston
Send your lumberjack from one to the other. I know. National compliance Officer Day, which is your favorite. I know.
Arnold Stricker
Wow. Yeah.
Mark Langston
Key lime day. Do you like key lime?
Arnold Stricker
I love key lime day.
Mark Langston
Really? This is your day, brother. National Dumpling Day.
Andy Hahn
All those things are today.
Mark Langston
Yes. What do you do? I know this is your congress working.
Arnold Stricker
Ok. Or your state legislature.
Mark Langston
This is what they.
Andy Hahn
I know what you do. You get your compliance officer key lime pie.
Mark Langston
That's it. That's the bribe that you want to do. I know it. Coming up, American Indian Day, which is good. I like hug a vegetarian day. Do you know any vegetarians?
I know one.
Andy Hahn
I know quite a few.
Mark Langston
Do you? I know one guy that will not eat anything with eyeballs.
Arnold Stricker
I probably know more vegetarians than I do vegans.
Mark Langston
Is that right?
Andy Hahn
Yeah.
Mark Langston
I thought the eyeball thing was interesting because some vegetarians will eat fish.
Andy Hahn
Yeah.
Mark Langston
Yeah. But I know one that says if it's got eyeballs. I'm not eating it. Yep. This is what things we talk about. Morning show host day. Here we go.
Yeah, there's only a couple of more brave day. Chocolate milk day. You like chocolate milk?
Andy Hahn
Love chocolate milk.
Mark Langston
Yeah. And national corned beef hash day. Yum.
Arnold Stricker
Yeah.
Mark Langston
Isn't that.
Arnold Stricker
Yeah, that's good stuff.
Mark Langston
All right.
Arnold Stricker
That's good.
Mark Langston
Yeah.
Arnold Stricker
Did you know that the first five days after the weekend are the hardest?
Andy Hahn
True.
Arnold Stricker
And then there was the note, the tip that was left for the waitress. The bill was $32.76 and the tip was, don't call my husband sweetheart.
Mark Langston
Oh yeah, love that. Okay.
Arnold Stricker
And a lot of times the weather people, they give out. They'll give out the temperature and then the wind chill, especially like if it's in the wintertime.
The weather guy who figured out the wind chill, he died. He was 86, but felt like 75.
Andy Hahn
Wow.
Mark Langston
What is wrong with him?
Arnold Stricker
And a man asked his wife, what would you do if I won the lottery? And she replied, I'd take half and leave. Great. He said, I won $12. Here's six. Stay in touch.
Mark Langston
Sorry, we're jumping the gun on some of those. I said, you don't have more, do you?
Arnold Stricker
Yes.
Mark Langston
No. Please tell me no.
Arnold Stricker
Godzilla. I love the Godzilla movies. I remember growing up as a kid, you'd see the japanese Godzilla show. Mouse were moving and then, yeah, it was weird.
But the new Godzilla movies I really like. And Godzilla didn't win an oscar until he was 70 years old and had starred in 38 movies. Never stop following your dreams.
Mark Langston
All right, thank you. Thank you very much.
Arnold Stricker
Let's see here. There we got here.
Mark Langston
See this is Andy. This is the problem here.
Arnold Stricker
I hate when people suggest that I get a job doing something I love. No one is going to pay me to binge watch crime shows on Netflix and nap all day.
Mark Langston
I happen to like Bosch Halloween Candy is.
Arnold Stricker
It came out after the 4 July it seems like.
Mark Langston
Oh, my wife won't let me buy it.
Arnold Stricker
So the Halloween candy's on sale right now folks. But no, you should not buy it. It's a trick. Buy it now and you'll shame eat it on the couch. You'll have to buy it all over again.
It's very clever these candy companies, but you can't fool me a 14th time.
Mark Langston
Wait, take a bow will you?
Arnold Stricker
Okay, I guess I better stop there. Mark, while I'm.
Mark Langston
Are you really gonna stop there?
Arnold Stricker
Actually gonna stop there?
Mark Langston
No. I don't believe it.
Arnold Stricker
It's been fun having Andy on the show and come back anytime.
Andy Hahn
Oh, thank you.
Arnold Stricker
Especially when you get volume two out. Yeah, we really want to have that. And don't wait ten years to do that.
Andy Hahn
No, I won't. I won't.
Mark Langston
And don't make your wife mad 8 hours a day.
Andy Hahn
She wasn't too mad about it.
Mark Langston
Okay?
Andy Hahn
She still talks to me.
Arnold Stricker
Folks, you need to get to the Campbell house down on Locust Street. 15th and Locust. Please do that.
Andy Hahn
You can buy the book there.
Arnold Stricker
Yes, you can.
Mark Langston
I'll get it signed, maybe.
Andy Hahn
Definitely.
Arnold Stricker
Andy, is there occasionally nothing like a.
Mark Langston
Signed book by the author?
Andy Hahn
Yeah, that's true.
Arnold Stricker
And we'll post those other dates and places on the podcast page. I that's all for this hour. Thank you for listening. If you've enjoyed this episode, you can listen to additional shows at st. Lintune.com.
consider leaving a review on Apple Podcasts, podchaser or your preferred podcast platform. Your feedback helps us reach more listeners and continue to grow.
I want to thank Bob Berthisel for our great theme music, our guest Andy Hahn, and our co host, Mark Langston. We thank you for being a part of our community of curious minds St. Louis and Tune is a production of Motif Media Group and the US Radio network.
Remember to keep seeking, keep learning, walk worthy, and let your light shine. For St. Louis in tune, I'm Arnold Stricker.
Andy Hahn
Andy Hahn is a 7th generation St. Louisan who has been passionate about history and maps since he was a kid. As a student at St. Louis University, he interned at the Cupples House, where he was bitten by the old house bug. Since 2003, he has worked as director of the Campbell House Museum, an 1851 townhouse in downtown St. Louis. Andy has served on the American Association of State and Local History Historic House Committee and the boards of the Lafayette Park Conservancy and the Friends of Tower Grove Park. This is his first book.
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