From Script to Stage: The Journey of Theatrical Creation

[00:00:00] Arnold: How many of you out there like theater? If you're driving, please don't raise your hand, but the theater is an extremely important aspect of our life There are many theaters in St. Louis here But there's a theater group who received 24 nominations last year and that's something to talk about and we're going to talk about that today

Welcome to st Louis in tune and thank you for joining us for fresh perspectives on issues and events with experts community leaders and everyday people Who are driving change and making an impact that shapes our society and world. I'm Arnold Stricker with Mark Langston. Mark, how are you, sir? 

[00:00:47] Mark: I'm great, thank you.

And Mark is fine. You don't have to call me sir. Hey, you bum. What's going on over there? I know it. Not much, just enjoying that the temperatures have finally changed. I'm not sure when this will be, when you'll hear this, because we do replay them and but getting ready for the big eclipse, which is less than a week away.

So that's going to be fun. 

[00:01:08] Arnold: One of my favorite times of year, springtime, where you see the renewal of trees and plants and flowers and the grass. Yeah. People who live in a, what I would call a one climate, It's, I'm sure they get used to that and they love the aspects of that, whether it be in Alaska or maybe down in Florida.

However, it's always nice to see the seasons change and really enjoy seeing the color out right now. Yeah. The greens. 

[00:01:34] Mark: Yeah. 

[00:01:35] Arnold: . Our return to civility. If you're sitting in the middle of a row of seats, especially at the theater, be mindful of how many times you get up. Proper planning can prevent poor performance.

Every time you get up, you make everyone else get up too. To let you buy Now in a sporting event, I get it. Yeah. But like theater, oh, I'm laughing in like the symphony. I'm laughing. Yeah. Yeah, let's get the bathroom stuff done all out of the way. You're not eating popcorn or drinking soda or stuff like that.

[00:02:05] Mark: My son Michael loves the movies, goes all the time. I think he's seen every movie that comes out. It's just his thing, it's his hobby, so I go with him a lot and it's, have you been to a movie theater in a while? It's the cell phone people watching the cell phones that are sitting up in front of you and And then, oh, and then the ruffling of the bags when they're going after the popcorn, is nodding his head.

I, oh it's The 

[00:02:30] Arnold: theater we go to, they like, they have the cell phone police. And you sit back in some Lazy Boy chairs and you can order, and they'll bring your order, your popcorn and your soda, whatever you're getting. And if somebody's got a cell phone out, you just push a button and they, the cell phone police 

[00:02:46] Mark: come out.

It's been rough for me to go to movie theaters lately, I have to admit. And then the talking is, and I do, my, my son's always don't be that guy, dad. And I go, no, I'm gonna be that guy. I can't help. And I go, come on y'all. Quiet down. We're trying to listen to the movie, so I, I don't know. I'm adding to it or making it worse, but it becomes another event. It does. I know. It's not fun. It's not, sometimes it's not fun. Yeah. I 

[00:03:10] Arnold: go to see the movie. I don't go to hear you talk about the 

[00:03:12] Mark: movie. Oh. And, but the Cell phones is the absolute. And they're always the ones that are sitting in front of you.

Naturally. And they don't even dim the, you shouldn't have your cell phone out for looking, yeah. All right. So I'm an old crabby man, I know. If you're worried about what people are 

[00:03:26] Arnold: thinking or doing on social media at that time, you're in the wrong venue. Yeah, that's right. Give it a break. So if you're sitting in the middle of a row of seats, be mindful of how many times you get up, whether it's at a sporting event, at a movie.

Even a theater at the theater. Oh, yeah Symphony Hall speaking about the theater Gary Wayne Barker who is a director and actor also a professor and associate dean at St. Louis University is here to talk to us about the 20 where is it here? 26 season of the new Jewish theater and it's kicked off With the play by Arthur Miller called all my sons Gary.

Welcome to st. Louis in tune. No, thank you so much It's an honor to be here now. I mentioned st. Louis University You And you are a local, and I guess, regional actor. Yes. And you've done some directing, and you started teaching at SLU 20 plus years ago as the chair of the theater department, I believe. Is that correct?

[00:04:25] Gary: No but close. I came for a faculty position and then over time I became like director of theater and then eventually chair of the department of fine and performing arts, which includes music, art history, studio art, theater, and dance, and then I moved to the Dean's office ultimately.

Do you miss I teach a little bit, not nearly as much as I did. And I still direct in the program occasionally as well. 

[00:04:51] Arnold: Yeah. What was the impetus to, move up into academia the way you did to be an associate dean? 

[00:05:00] Gary: I found that I had some administrative skills and that I enjoyed it as I got some positions like that director of theater and then chair of the department, I found that it used a part of me that the classroom did not.

I also found that it was drawing on my skill set as a director I was Like, keeping a lot of plates spinning, a theatrical director has to do that. And so I liked that aspect. And then I would also say that in the administration at SLU there were, there really weren't people who came from an arts background.

And I was eager to sit at tables that I wasn't sitting at and be a part of conversations for overall university planning and give an arts perspective.

That was important to me. 

[00:05:51] Arnold: Doing what you've done in the theater is very similar to musicians, band directors, choir directors, orchestra directors who have this arts background. I was a band director type and retired as an administrator, that you have a different set of skills. And just like you said, I've got a lot of plates spinning and I'm able to manage that and work with a variety, a wide variety of people.

And it really just gives a you do have that skill set that can be used for what I would call the greater good or more people. 

[00:06:23] Gary: Yes, for sure. And it's, We don't use this phrase in the theater really, but it's project management is the way most people think about it and because you're dealing with a lot of different ideas trying to get people behind a unified vision and As a director you also are trying to move other people along the cast towards that vision and there's a there's some psychology involved in that if you will and An administrator has to have those skills skill sets as well.

[00:06:50] Arnold: That's correct. When you started as an actor, and you've performed at a variety of venues here in St. Louis. You performed at New Jersey Theater, Tennessee Williams, Moonstone, The Rep, and a lot of other ones that before we got started you said even that don't exist yet. The move from acting to directing, you haven't done as much directing as acting obviously, but why the that particular kind of position?

[00:07:18] Gary: I don't really know that it was a conscious decision. As an academic, I started my career at smaller universities. Compared to St. Louis University. And it's a given, if you are on the performance side of things, that you're also going to direct. So it was an expectation, even though I wasn't trained as a director, it was an expectation that I was going to direct.

Direct in the academic season. So those were skills that I had to develop And then when I began to pursue my professional career prior to moving to st Louis parallel with my academic career and then certainly when I moved to st. Louis to a much larger city with so many more options I'm trained as an actor and I Made myself available for that first, but then over time as people saw my work I also made myself available as a director.

So in comparison, I haven't done as much directing as acting in st. Louis, but I've been directing since I Got out of grad school. 

[00:08:13] Arnold: Okay, so these particular venues that I talked about like New Jewish Theatre, Tennessee Williams, Moonstone rap etc How as an actor, I'm gonna, this is a two, two prong question.

As an actor and then as a director, even though you may not have directed at all of these, how does the venue change the production? Or does it change it in any way? In as far as like Shakespeare in the park, obviously there's a huge audience there. Versus maybe at the rep it's dark. It's still a contained close audience.

Moonstones, different kind of venue. They're all different kind of venues. Does that change the production from an acting perspective or directing perspective in any way? 

[00:08:54] Gary: Yeah, for both. The size of the venue as an actor has a big impact. I think about, I've performed with the Shakespeare festival in the park, a couple of shows and the, just the sheer size, what it asks of you physically and what it asks of you vocally they use microphones.

So that's a, that's an interesting dynamic of I don't have to vocally project to make sure that the back row hears me because the microphone assists in that way, but physically I have to be larger for the back row to be able to see what I'm doing. So that's an interesting juxtaposition. A studio theater the new Jewish theater is a little over a hundred seats but it's a, black box configuration and the seating can change based on the production.

So we're doing all my sons in a thrust configuration, which means that there are audience is seated on three sides, think about similar to the rep right main stage configuration, but that should, that theater has also been configured in an, in the round audience on four sides, but it's also been configured.

I directed a show there, which was done in a proscenium. So audience on one side action on the other side. So that changes things for an actor and director in that you've got to realize, depending on the configuration, that you may have your back to people at some times. And so you've got to keep moving, if you will, so that someone in the audience is getting a face hopefully more regularly than not in an proscenium, you don't really stand in a nose to nose configuration.

You cheat out a little bit so that the audience. What you do posture wise, yeah, it, it all, there are scenery implications, right? Yeah. The venue influences all of those things. 

[00:10:51] Mark: Gary. Gary, would you. Gary. Do you prefer a larger audience or does it matter or a smaller audience that more intimate atmosphere?

What are you as a actor? How do you, what do you prefer? I 

[00:11:04] Gary: don't, 

[00:11:05] Mark: I 

[00:11:05] Gary: don't think it's, I don't really have a preference. Hopefully the size of the venue is helping tell the story. And the shows that let's say the Muni would do. You wouldn't be able to do them at that scale in a small 100 seat black box theater without completely reconceiving the show.

And I think Some people are saying to me about all my sons that they've seen it in the past, but they saw it in a bigger venue and that for, I had an email yesterday from someone saying that they responded much more to this production in part because they believe because of the intimacy of it, where they do.

It's a little more film like in that way that they were really right on top of the emotions if you will So I think there are shows that are written that really need an intimate setting in the way films might be made for a little art house kind of theater versus the Huge IMAX or the huge, Marvel comics on the IMAX or something like that.

It's about this, for me, it's about the scope of what the story needs. And yeah, that would be my answer. Yeah. 

[00:12:26] Arnold: This is Arnold Strucker with Mark Langston of St. Louis in Tune. And that's a great question, Mark, because I was wondering You know you when you're when you and you weren't the one doing it, but when Theaters choose productions that they're going to do right.

They really need to take into consideration their size The capacity how they can arrange things and does that fit this particular play? I've always wanted to do that G, but we don't have the theater to do that And I guess if you do it anyway, you may My words crash and burn, or it may not come off like you really want it to.

[00:13:01] Gary: Yeah, I think the New Jewish Theatres, which I had nothing to do with, the New Jewish Theatres production prior to All My Sons was Stephen Sondheim's Into the Woods. That typically is done in a much larger venue and They found a really interesting way to reconceive it for that small black box theater and it won award and award of an award at the recent theater circle awards here in st.

Louis and it was part of because it was so fresh and innovative to take that show that would normally be a Quite big, and make it far more intimate. It allowed an audience to see it in a whole new way. 

[00:13:46] Arnold: And that really, and I hate to even say it like this, you have to think outside the box. Not the black box, but you have to really, innovation's a great word for that, you have to, how can I pull this off, and still maintain the flavor of the play, and yet have people really seem to buy into that.

Yep. Now again folks, we're talking to Gary Wayne Barker. He's a celebrated director, actor, professor, and associate dean at St. Louis University. And Gary, this is the first Play in the theater's 26th season the new Jewish theater's 26th season and we're coming folks to the end of the run of this So if you're gonna see it You better get out there and see it because it's over April the 7th And as we are broadcasting it is April the 2nd So you have five days to get there and get that done questions about that talk a little bit about All My Sons by Arthur Miller.

What can, give a little brief synopsis of it. Don't obviously give it all away because then why do I need to go see the play then? What is it about to tantalize people to hook them to come see this? 

[00:14:49] Gary: All right I'll do my best to be brief. It is American classic. The play written in the mid 20th century.

Arthur Miller was looking for a story that would explore the implications of World War II. And he. Became aware of a real life event that occurred in Ohio, where a factory that provided parts for airplanes there was a great scandal that defective parts went out and If I understand this correctly, there were military inspectors who were involved in that scandal as well.

They looked the other way on things. And so it, it made the newspapers and he thought, that's it. That's the story I've been looking for. And now he changed details and he made, he centered it around a family and he patterned the family dynamic in terms of, a husband, a wife, and two sons after his own family, which was not true about the actual Ohio event.

So it's about these two business partners who are also next door neighbors. This is all pre, before the story begins in the play. They owned a manufacturing plant that provided airplane parts and defective parts were sent out and they both were. Tried and convicted for that. But Joe Keller and we the play revolves around the family of the Keller.

He was ultimately acquitted and the partner went to prison. . Joe Keller had two, son has two sons, both in the military. One came home and the other. It was either killed or missing in action. The family, particularly the mother, refuses to believe that the son is not alive somewhere. And in the time that has elapsed years, but a short number of years the son who has returned has passed away.

Developed a relationship with his missing brother's fiance and now they are a couple and the mother and particularly will not accept that because that would be an indication that we now believe that the other brother is dead. All right. And Ultimately, the play is exploring the idea of what is our responsibility to the world?

Do we have a responsibility to take care of our family and the people we care about? Or do we have a responsibility to the whole world, hence the title, All My Sons? And throughout the course of the play, it becomes a question as to How complicit was Joe Keller, this business partner? Yes, he was found not guilty, but that's not the same thing as being innocent.

[00:17:45] Arnold: Very interesting. I'm always intrigued at how playwrights come up with what they want to do. And you mentioned that Miller interjected his family, much like Tennessee Williams interjected his whole life into. many of his plays. Is this a common theme that you see playwrights do?

They insert parts of their lives into or why do we remember Tennessee Williams doing that and Arthur Miller doing that and maybe some others haven't? 

[00:18:15] Gary: I think certainly playwrights or writers and creative writers in general, it's probably not surprising that they may draw on their life experience, right?

And that may find its way into their poetry or their short stories or whatever it may be. And then there are other writers who are. really pulling things out of their imagination from what we know about Shakespeare. There wasn't a great deal of Shakespeare's life that was folded into Shakespeare's writing, assuming Shakespeare wrote them at all.

But that's another show. So I think it's I think it varies. I have a good friend who's a writer, not a playwright, and she's writing to make sense of her. life experience. And then I think there are others who completely make things up out of just a fertile imagination.

[00:19:09] Arnold: I found when I was reading about the play, because some of the notes, that when they were talking about the airplane parts that were defective, I immediately thought of Boeing. 

[00:19:23] Gary: Yes, that, we had a talk back last week and an audience member brought that up about did any of us want to comment on the parallels?

And I spoke up first and went, no, I don't. I actually don't want to comment on that. I have to fly. But yes, certainly people are making connections and All things old are new 

[00:19:42] Arnold: again. And that's, and it's amazing how, there are problems in society that just come back around. Come back around, yeah. They're like in this cyclical kind of pattern. Yeah, very well put. It is. And that's how I answer the question. Old things are new again. Old things 

[00:19:58] Mark: are new, yeah, I wish I could be new again.

[00:20:04] Arnold: So we're, we've, we got a couple minutes to a break, but I wanted to Let's talk about the actors in this. Some of them have never acted at the New Jewish Theater before, and some of them have the youngster, he's a was in the youth program there. Yeah. And some have been there before, and have you worked with any of these actors before?

[00:20:27] Gary: Oh, yeah. The two actors who play the parents Joe and Kate Keller Greg Johnston and Amy Louie I've directed both of them before Greg and I have performed together before, so I have a longstanding relationship with them. The rest of them I may have seen on stage, some I had not seen on stage and were completely new to me.

[00:20:50] Arnold: Did you have a Were you on the selection committee of that? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like a typical audition, like a musical audition, they get up and read or you say, here's a script, go for it or? 

[00:21:01] Gary: Every theater might handle this a little differently but there are some things that one might expect.

In this case there were excerpts of the script that were made available in advance. And so people could choose to come in with that, depending on which role they were interested in, they could come in and have prepared that to whatever level. And that way I knew they were interested in a particular role.

And then perhaps I would see something and say okay, but I'd also like to hear you for this other role as well. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. 

[00:21:35] Arnold: Yeah. I always like to what's in the mind of somebody, what are they looking for I 

[00:21:41] Mark: think it'd be tough to figure out what role someone's going to be in.

Oh yeah. I personally, I think it'd be tough. I guess sometimes it speaks to you and tells you, but I think if sometimes when it's got to be challenging, I would think. 

[00:21:54] Gary: Yeah. Yeah it is because there are so many considerations there there's the quote unquote rightness for the role. I'm also interested in what kind of experience and training do they have because that's going to inform how they approach something.

Although it's not a given that just because you have more training or experience that you're necessarily going to be the one who gets it. But I look at that kind of thing. And then when you're casting a family you might also take into consideration genetics. Do they look like they could be a family, right?

I had an actor that I'm a great fan of and read really well for one of the roles. But once I started making decisions, I was like, I just. I couldn't use him, although he would have been brilliant in it, because he wasn't going to look like the person that I had cast in another role, and they needed to be related from a family perspective.

Because otherwise I think an audience, when you tell them that this is true, and then if they have that kind of disconnect from what they see, it's noise. It's noise in their head. 

[00:22:55] Arnold: It's a distraction from really what the play is about. Can 

[00:22:57] Gary: be. 

[00:22:57] Arnold: Okay. All right. Well, we're Stricker with Mark Langston of St.

Louis In Tune. We'll We're going to talk more with Gary Barker who is directing the All My Sons by Arthur Miller at the 26th season of the New Jewish Theater. We'll be right back.

This is Arnold Stricker of St. Louis in Tune on behalf of the Dred Scott Heritage Foundation. In 1857 the Dred Scott decision was a major legal event and catalyst that contributed to the Civil War. The decision declared that Dred Scott could not be free because he was not a citizen. The 14th Amendment was passed.

Also called the Dred Scott Amendment, granted citizenship to all born or naturalized here in our country, and was intended to overturn the U. S. Supreme Court decision on July 9th, 1868. The Dred Scott Heritage Foundation is requesting a commemorative stamp to be issued from the U. S. Postal Service to recognize and remember Dred Scott.

The heritage of this amendment by issuing a stamp with the likeness of the man Dred Scott, but we need your support and the support of thousands of people who would like to see this happen. To achieve this goal, we ask you to download, sign, and share the one page petition with others. To find the petition, please go to dredscottlives.

org and click on the Dred Scott petition drive on the right side of the page. On behalf of the Dred Scott Heritage Foundation, this has been Arnold Stricker of St. Louis in Tune. 

[00:24:27] Mark: Thanks for listening to St. Louis In Tune. On each and every show we strive to bring you informative, useful, and reflective stories and interviews about current and historic issues and events that involve people, places, and things.

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[00:26:06] Arnold: Welcome back to St. Louis in Tune. This is Arnold Stricker with Mark Langston. We are talking with Gary Barker. He's a celebrated director and actor in the St. Louis area. Also a professor and associate dean at St. Louis University. And you don't want to miss All My Sons at the Jays Wool Studio Theater, which is out in, where Creve Corrush area, 2 Millstone Campus Drive.

And the performance will cease. So you have several days to get out. Their performances are Thursdays at 730, Saturdays at 4 and 8 p. m., and Sundays at 2 p. m. Folks, you can get tickets. Call 314 442 3283 or go online to newjewishtheater. org. And this does open the new 

[00:26:52] Mark: season though. So it opened the new season.

So there'll be more after this. Yes. 

[00:26:56] Arnold: Yeah. 

[00:26:57] Mark: Many 

[00:26:57] Arnold: more. So matter of fact, they have we, we all fall down starts May 30th to June 16th, I do that every day, red, not the theater portion, July 25th through August the 11th, and then is it trife September 12th and first date, November. 21st through December the 8th.

So all the way through December folks, the 26th season. And remember that they were nominated, had 24 nominations last year. So this is not some fly by night theater production company. They know what they're doing. They hired Gary to direct the very first production coming out of the 

[00:27:36] Mark: chute. I was going to say Gary has quite a resume of his own.

He does. Accolades to go along with it. 

[00:27:41] Arnold: What's been the biggest challenge on this particular play, Gary? 

[00:27:45] Gary: I should have an answer to that, but I don't because it really was charmed the, from the initial design meetings to, The rehearsal process, I was telling a friend yesterday, I was like, this really was a very charmed experience.

So there there weren't major pitfalls or hurdles that had to be overcome. It's really been. Delicious. 

[00:28:13] Arnold: But I think that speaks, though, to, okay, hey, we need a lighting person, oh, we need a sound person, we need a set person, we need a costume person, and people that are doing that who are of high quality and know what they're doing, they've been in the industry, and I don't know if you had any Say in who those people were or whether that was done from the ultimately from the theater director that really helps.

That's not a really supporting cast. It's Hey, you're arm and arm with them. 

[00:28:44] Gary: Yeah, a hundred percent. Every. Every theater might handle that a little differently. Sometimes a director is hired in and the team is already assembled. What I've experienced more is that the director may be one of the first people hired, and then they are consulted in to who they might with who they think would be good at the particular needs of this show.

So this one was a combination. The costume designer, the brilliant Michelle Seiler is the resident costume designer for the new Jewish theater. And so she's just a given. And that is a given I'm a hundred percent on board with. And then some of the other designers I was able to say, Oh, I think.

This person in town or this person would be really useful. The scenic designer was someone I knew by reputation, Otis Sweezy. He's a retired faculty member from SIUE and we had never met, but I was aware of him by reputation and since his retirement, he's able to come out and play more. And so it was a delight to be able to work with him.

Amanda Ware, the sound designer. We've worked together on previous productions. She's on faculty at Webster Conservatory right now. And so I had some input but yeah the, it's the artistic director's responsibility to ultimately assemble that team. But I got input. 

[00:30:07] Arnold: Is the theater.

community in, I'm speaking of the actors and the scenery people and the costumes and sound people, is it a small community in St. Louis? I don't want to say a medium size, large, in comparison to like obviously Hollywood, that's a whole nother deal, but a lot, it's like St. Louis is this big, small town where you run into people or, yeah, I know that person over there, they've done this work over here at this theater and things like that.

[00:30:32] Gary: Yeah, it is that. Do we have the Depth of bench. I shouldn't use sports compared references. Do we have the depth of people participating that Chicago would have? No, we don't. But what I found when I moved here, and this has remained true, St. Louis is a bigger theater city than a city this size should have.

So in my experience like Dallas Fort Worth, you would think would have so much more, but in reality St. Louis has historically, it ebbs and flows, has more professional theater opportunities than you would experience there. That would be certainly true comparison to New Orleans or even Minneapolis now.

Seattle used to be a big theater city, but. But theaters have fallen on hard times in the United States, and so it's not as much as it once was. So we punch above our weight in St. Louis in theater. 

[00:31:31] Arnold: I was going to ask, why do you think that is? But you answered that. That, the pandemic, I know, did a lot to destroy a whole lot of things, especially in the arts.

That's right. So how do you think, and say I'm a student of yours at SLU, how do we get theater back on the No pun intended the main stage of people's Where I want to choose to spend my money. I don't want to go to the ballgame tonight I don't want to watch the TV show. I don't want to go to the movies Maybe I should go to the theater.

How do you put that back on the main stage for people? 

[00:32:06] Gary: Oh, if I knew that I'd set up a consulting firm I think the arts in this country and around the world And I'm saying arts right broadly I are struggling with this as to what the art form is going to mean to a new generation. And so symphonies and philharmonic orchestras have been struggling with this for decades now, actually.

And so this is part of the reason that we will see them doing more popular programming, like the playing the soundtrack to a Harry Potter movie or whatever it may be. So really trying to draw in a new audience and help them see relevance. Theater has been theater has been coming to that brainstorming a bit later than say the professional music world has, but it's definitely, it is definitely struggling with that now.

Because. People's attendance patterns and spending patterns have changed. From what I read, a contemporary demographic is far less likely to buy a subscription to anything. And that was how those, that's how those venues theater and Symphony. Symphony. That was their bread and butter. It was a subscription, a subscriber base.

And, but that's not where a contemporary audience is. They want the freedom to be able to say I'll go see this show, but I'm not going to commit to five shows. 

[00:33:39] Arnold: Right. 

[00:33:39] Gary: Or whatever it may be. So yeah, this is the professional arts venues are really wrestling with this question. 

[00:33:45] Arnold: I know in the.

In the orchestral world, there was, a lot of it relates to certain conductors, that when they come into a symphony orchestra, they, maybe, I always play the classics, we always do the classics, or we always, all we're going to do is modern music from, this time period forward. You really almost now, to me, this, what I would like to hear, I would like to hear a variety something that I can attach to the old classics, okay, challenge me with this new piece and give me some middle of the road stuff.

To get a varied program together is extremely difficult to, you don't want to, you can't make everybody happy because then you make everybody miserable but at the same time you can't focus on one end and ostracize another group on the other side. Is that very similar in It 

[00:34:31] Gary: is. And I think a good artistic director who would be making those kinds of like season choices that's a skill set 

[00:34:39] Music: that 

[00:34:39] Gary: not everybody has to be able to think about what's going to be what's going to be commercial, what's going to sell, but what might also be appropriately challenging to an audience, ask them to expand their taste some what's current in terms of really engaging with contemporary ideas what gives appropriate, recognition of a classic.

I think you asked a moment ago, what was the challenge with this production? And it hasn't proven to be a product, a challenge, but I but this is a very classically inspired play. It's a very I'm hesitant to use the word traditional because that might be off putting to some of the listening audience, but it has a very clear beginning, middle, and end.

And postmodern playwrights are not really writing plays in that dramatic structure anymore. They're far more influenced by film and TV and the quick edits and so on and so forth. And so I was curious to see what, how the audience would respond to something that's traditional in the way a story is told.

But in fact, people have been responding really quite positively to it. And it's been interesting to just sit and watch and see how people are engaged with this compelling story, even though it's not told in a way that you might experience watching an HBO film. 

[00:36:01] Arnold: Yeah, I'm glad you said what you just said because we've talked to other directors before and One said, I remember in particular, I go to opening night and then I don't show up anymore because the work's already been done.

It's now in the actors, it's their show. It's not my show anymore. And he said something I thought was fascinating. You're not watching the actors, you're watching the audience to see what the response is going to be. How many times do you, or have you, in your directing, seen the response of an audience and go that's not really what I was anticipating, it's not what I really wanted.

We're going to tweak the show a little bit to, have you done that, or? 

[00:36:42] Gary: Not in professional theater. Once opening night occurs, my job is finished, and it really would be inappropriate for me to come back in and reconceive something. If you're at a theater, and this would be a larger theater with a longer run while you're still in previews, you might get But you're getting that audience response and so it's still appropriate to do some tweaking.

But once opening happens, it's really not appropriate to go back in and tinker in that way. The most I might do is give a note to the stage manager and say Oh, wow. Just please remind them to keep their volume up that, that all of those bodies are soaking up sound. Gotcha. And so I might. I might gently say something like that But it would be through the stage manager because really the stage manager is in control once the production opens Academic theater is different.

I would say I have tweaked a little bit in academic theater because the overall purpose is the training of those students. And so making an adjustment from one weekend to the next could be a valuable learning experience, even though that's not what they would experience in the classroom.

professional theater For their overall training they might hear from me in that my job is not done on opening night in academic theater in the same Way, okay 

[00:38:09] Arnold: Yeah, it really is and this is why I really enjoy picking people's brains about this because you know Somebody who's going through the process or your general I'm sitting in the audience.

I wonder what the director's thinking in this particular situation or why they chose this particular You know set or why they're doing it this way and which brings me to this question Is that you've probably seen this play done before maybe not 

[00:38:33] Gary: I was in it. 

[00:38:34] Arnold: Okay. That helps a lot That's how many times do you read the script as a director to get into your mind exactly what you want to do?

I 

[00:38:43] Gary: I don't have it's not a, it's not a fixed resume recipe. It's drawn on experience about 

[00:38:49] Arnold: where you are at the time or? 

[00:38:51] Gary: Yeah. I'm going to read it multiple times but there's not a fixed number. Okay. But yeah, I'm going to read it multiple times over a period of time as well, assuming I have a period of time.

Yeah. In my prep time, I'm going to read it multiple times to see What new insight I get or I'll read it with a particular Lens in mind meaning I might read it one time just to okay this time I'm, just reading it to see what the prop needs are and this time i'm going to read it to just see what the visual images are that might inform my conversation with the You lighting or scenic or costume designer, a props person, whatever it may be.

This time I'm going to read it for the sound, like what sounds are suggested in the play, because that's going to inform my conversation with the sound designer. Okay. 

[00:39:44] Arnold: Okay. 

[00:39:44] Gary: Wow. 

[00:39:45] Arnold: Yeah. That's amazing. It's like a, jack of all trades. You have to be able to visualize and anticipate what they're going to be.

So you get to the final production and, or, the first when everybody shows up that you know exactly what you want to do. 

[00:40:01] Gary: Yeah that. Not that it's set in amber, right? Because then the cast are going to bring their own unique things. So you have to have some flexibility to be able to adjust based on the great ideas that those actors are bringing to you in the midst of the rehearsal process.

And sometimes that will affect. Like going back to the scenic designer before something is built and saying, we, we talked about this, but I think let's rethink that based now that I could see the action and so you have to have some flexibility but I'm a director who comes in with a pretty clear idea from the beginning so that I can help everybody get on the same page.

page. And as actors make choices, part of what my job is as a director is to be able to see, say, yep, that's a really great choice, but not for this production. I, I, that, yeah, if we were doing a different production of this, I could see how we might go that way, but that's so to help them edit.

And you explain that to them though. I do not all directors do, but. I do, 

[00:41:03] Arnold: which it gets, I've seen these movies and, where the director's sitting there and no, that's not what I want. And you're yelling at everybody and the actors are just like, and I think the collaborative, I even hate to use the word collaborative because it, but it is where you're willing to.

Yeah, that's a great idea. We're going to incorporate that or like you just said yeah, that's a great idea But it doesn't work for this particular play I think that is a that's an openness that I Sense a lot of people who are in positions like yours. At least this is my perceived thought is that They don't like that.

They don't like being told. I'm the director. I don't, you don't tell me what to do. They have this prima donna but that's more of a stereotype. I guess I have of that. 

[00:41:46] Gary: That's not been my experience in the theater. 

[00:41:48] Arnold: And that's great. That's nice to hear. 

[00:41:50] Gary: Yeah, that has not been my experience.

It's a very collaborative art form and When I say that I try to arrive at the first rehearsal with some decisions made I also want to make sure that I'm saying I'm not telling the scenic designer how to design the set I'm giving them what my values are I may say these are some things that are important to me that I think the set has to have and then they bring Something amazing and I may say yep that works.

No, not so much that let's tweak there I'm not saying that But that's true with all of the designers. They're bringing their own artistry to it and the actors bring their own artistry to it. And so I might say, Oh, I thought of the scene or this moment differently. Huh. Now I see what you're doing.

Yeah. Actually, that's a better choice. 

[00:42:35] Mark: Okay. Cool. Cool. Wow. So it's you're not micromanaging then. I hate to even put it into those terms, but that's exactly what it is. 

[00:42:44] Gary: There are directors who approach it that way. And can get terrific results. 

[00:42:50] Mark: I would have personally, I'd have a tough time with not tweaking it after every performance.

I, but I think what Gary's saying is right, you Put it together and let's go forward with it. Let it go. Yeah, and I think that's important too 

[00:43:04] Gary: I will you know in I would have 

[00:43:06] Mark: trouble 

[00:43:06] Gary: in let's say first national tours like it might have had a celebrated show like the lion king for instance, right?

There are directors we'll call them assistant directors or associate directors. Once that show goes out into the world, particularly on the first national tours worldwide, there are people who are hired to go and spot check the fidelity of what. That makes sense. There, that company is not allowed to change things sometimes even depending on the production even to what words are hit or it is this is the thing and this is the thing that the world is expecting to see.

And there are people who are quality control agents, frankly. That's not true in a regional or small professional theater world. 

[00:43:59] Arnold: Okay, that makes sense. Gary Barker's our guest, and if you have time, folks, you need to make time to go see All My Sons by Arthur Miller at the New Jewish Theater. And production goes through April 7th.

You can get tickets at the New Jewish Theater. NewJewishTheatre. org or 314 442 3283. You've been a practitioner and an educator for a long time. One of my favorite questions to ask those individuals is this, I'm thinking of going into the theater, I want to be an actor and maybe I'm in middle school or high school or maybe I'm in elementary school and I see this and what do you suggest I do so that I can be successful in the industry?

[00:44:50] Gary: Oh, there's so there are a lot of answers to that question. I think see as much theater as you can at all levels Because that's informative and educational get as much training as you can there are technical skills that will be beneficial So if someone knows in junior high that they want to do that then start singing voice lessons Not that all actors sing but it will make you better You're it'll make you speaking voice better get as much dance training as you can, even if you don't want a musical theater career, because it's going to make you more in your body.

So there are technical skills that take time to develop. So the earlier you start, the better you are, whether that's fencing or stage combat or dance, juggling, clowning, whatever it may be. I think I tell my college students I think this is even more true in the profession now to not be.

limiting in terms of I'm going to be an actor in the theater and that's what I'm going to be. It's actually probably better to say I'm going to be an artist in the theater or I'm going to be a theater maker because the reality is that the business may require you to be more than one thing.

And there's this there's this Stereotype if you will of the person who's an actor and then they're a waiter and right, right And there is some there's some validity in that stereotype but the students that I know who have graduated and have said I'm gonna have a career in the arts and that may be Arts management and maybe I'm stage managing and then I'm in three plays as an actor and then I'll be a director as well They've got multiple skill sets I have yet to find someone who made the decision to have a career in the arts who didn't have a career in the arts I've got a lot of students who decided I'm going to be an actor who have not They've not been able to solely support themselves from that alone.

So I, I recommend a sort of ecumenical approach to thinking about what a career in the arts would be as opposed to an acting career. It's fine to have a priority and say, this is the thing I like the most, but it's unusual for somebody to be able to do that right out of the gate. 

[00:47:10] Arnold: Wow. That's great.

Words of wisdom. 

[00:47:13] Gary: Oh yeah. Those are great words of wisdom. Oh yeah. 

[00:47:15] Arnold: I would love to compile all these things in the musicians, the artists, the theater people that we've talked to and put it in one show and say, this is, they say very similar things. It's very similar things. And it speaks to your professionalism and that level at which you have achieved.

Because when you are successful in the business, it's by a lot of hard work. It's just doesn't, somebody doesn't come up to you and say Hey, I want you in my. Play or how I want you to direct this they don't walk up from off the street and do that 

[00:47:46] Gary: And one more thing I'll add is that I also think you have to be and this may be too much to ask of a Junior hire, but eventually you have to have an understanding of why you do this because there will be lean times and there will be sacrifices that are asked of the people who love you and that you've invited into your life and I find that it's not enough To say But I love it.

It actually, I think, and this reveals my own value system, it also, you have to believe that it is contributing something to the world that make those sacrifices worthwhile. 

[00:48:25] Arnold: Well said. Gary Barker's been our guest. Gary, thanks for coming into St. Louis in Tuna and talking to us today. Thank 

[00:48:30] Gary: you so 

[00:48:30] Arnold: much. It was an honor to 

[00:48:31] Gary: be with you.

And please go see the show. 

[00:48:33] Arnold: Please see the show, All My Sons by Arthur Miller at the New Jewish Theater. It is playing through April the 7th and you can get tickets at 314 442 3283 or online at newjewishtheatre. org. Wow. Yes. 

[00:48:51] Mark: I want to go. Yes. Very intimate theater too. Be very fun to see. 

[00:48:56] Arnold: I want to encourage people to go to our new website stlintune.

com, stlintune. com. And Mark, we have a word for the day. Oh. Okay. 

[00:49:07] Mark: Usually I can't even pronounce them. 

[00:49:09] Arnold: You can do this one. Okay. Kismet. Kismet. Kismet. Kismet refers to a power that is believed to control what happens in the future. It is synonymous with both. Fate, and destiny. So it was Kismet for our guest to show up here today and talk about theater.

And it's a musical. And it's a musical. 

[00:49:31] Gary: Okay. Kismet is a, Kismet is an old musical. 

[00:49:36] Mark: There's a musical named Kismet? Yes. Oh, okay. I would have never known. So there you are. Yeah. So you have any days of the day? I'm kidding. Yeah, there's a couple it's National Reconciliation Day. This is where, especially as we get into the election season, we have a lot of reconciliation.

You would hope anyway that they would do it. It's National Ride Your Horse to a Bar Day. Okay. That's probably goes way back to it probably goes way back to when Arthur Miller wrote his plays. Yeah. When he lived in Wyoming. Let's see here. Yeah, national reconciliation day is interesting.

Almost like the day of atonement. I guess every day needs to be national reconciliation. Wouldn't that be nice? Yes. That would be great. National DIY Day, do it yourself. Do you do any of your stuff? I do, yes. Do you do a lot of that kind of thing? 

[00:50:30] Arnold: After you look at YouTube, and then you know how YouTube has been It's very beneficial.

Quite a tool. Yes. 

[00:50:35] Mark: Especially if you're doing some home improvement kinds of things. It is happening well. And of course, Autism Acceptance and Autism Awareness Day, yeah, is going on too. Okay. Which we should all, and I have many more, but Those are just a few of my favorite ones. World Party Day.

To some people that's every day. Who knew? I know. 

[00:50:55] Arnold: Okay. I just have a couple of quick humor things to lighten everybody's day because we all get too serious in life and we need to lighten up folks. So now remember Easter happened just recently. Ten kids can pick up 5, 000 eggs in a yard the size of a football field in 10 minutes.

But it takes them three months to pick up five toys in a small bedroom. Boy, that's so true. In a packed elevator, everyone's silent. They normally look up. They don't talk to each other, look around or do anything. My stomach says, I will now demonstrate the mating call of a whale.

Speaking of elevators, my wife and I got stuck in an elevator and when we got home we told the story to our kids and they looked at us and said did you get out? My wife and I looked at each other and made a pact to go ahead and start drinking away their college time. I think that's alright.

And apparently, exercise helps you with decision making. It's true. I went for a run this morning and decided I'm never going again. Mmm.

It's important to respect people who wear glasses. They paid money to see you. Yeah, oh, that's good. And lastly, instead of a sign that says, do not disturb, I need one that says, already disturbed, proceed with caution.

We need to lighten up, folks. I know, yes, we do. We need to laugh and have fun. Yeah, there's a lot of lighting. One reason we did that. So we do that every show. We end the show with humor. Actually, that's all for this hour. And thank you for listening. If you've enjoyed this episode, you can listen to additional shows at stlintune.

com. Consider leaving a review on Apple Podcasts, Podchaser, or your preferred podcast platform. Your feedback helps us reach more listeners and continue to grow. I want to thank Bob Berthesel for our theme music co host, Mark Langston, and we thank you for being a part of our community of curious minds.

St. Louis In Tune is a production of Motif Media Group and the U. S. Radio Network. Remember to keep seeking, keep learning, walk worthy, and let your light shine for St. Louis In Tune. I'm Arnold Stricker.